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About TD9FJ

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    Relative Newbie

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    Woodford Green, Essex

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    Metropolitan Police (CN)

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  1. TD9FJ

    MPS Attestation

    Yes, in short. After a bit of initial admin, meetings and greetings and a talk from the Chief Super in charge of training, you all practice your Oath of Allegiance in (new) Simpson Hall, and then do it for real in front of a Justice of the Peace. And then you have two days of listening to sales pitches from MetFriendly and Police Mutual who will attempt to sell you every savings or insurance product under the sun...
  2. TD9FJ

    MSC-PC Training Course

    No problem friend. Any questions before or during training, feel free to drop me a message. Good luck at Hendon!
  3. TD9FJ

    MSC-PC Training Course

    1. Course composition The standard external PC training course and the MSC to PC course are now one and the same - you will be joining a class with a mixture of ex-MSC and external recruits. Hendon comprises 13 weeks of classroom based training, divided into three sections, each culminating in an exam (now renamed 'Knowledge Retention Exercises', or KREs). A very large part of the course relies on self-study of criminal law, which is no longer taught at Hendon (i.e. Theft, Burglary, Robbery, Crim Dam, Public Order Act, Assaults, etc). However you do get a lot of self-study and practice time as a class and instructors are more than willing to revise with you subjects that are no longer taught in the official syllabus. Skills training In addition to the classroom-based and practical role-play training (of which there is a lot - enjoy it or learn to enjoy it!) - you will also undertake five days of initial Officer Safety Training, which will preferably be in the dojo at the new Peel House but may be at another centre such as Heathrow, Havering or Lewisham if the centre is busy and you are unlucky. The OST days are typically spread out over several weeks (one or two days of OST each week) and may be scheduled at any point during your course. You also have one day of Public Order training at Level 3, which takes place at Hendon, plus two days of initial Emergency Life Saving which as of winter 2016/17 was taking place in the classrooms at the old Driving School at the far end of the site. Again, these are scattered through the course. 2. Transfer of MSC qualifications / courses On your first day at Hendon during registration you will be required to hand in your warrant card, holder and your police Oyster card. I would strongly advise that any police driver removes their driving permit (blue ticket) BEFORE the day and retains it somewhere safe. There is no blanket rule about transferring your driving - being given a permit as a PC is at the discretion of your OCU Safer Driving Manager, but having your existing ticket and your original check test certificate to present to them will greatly speed up the process. As indicated above, your OST/ELS and Public Order L3 qualifications are reset by having to take the initial courses again during your PC Foundation Training. If you have access to IT systems (such as PNC via AWARE) which you had to apply for or take courses to obtain as an MSC, then you won't automatically have these as a PC. Speak to IT helpdesk during your PC training to start the ball rolling getting these transferred across, and start early before your MSC account is deleted. Be ready to have dates of course available etc. 3. Uniform You will be required to bring all MPS-issued kit you still retain (including any officer safety equipment if you still have it) to Hendon on the day you have your uniform fitting. Uniform services will re-measure you, and if you elect to keep any serviceable items (such as your tunic, kit belt, handcuffs etc) then you may freely do so, but if you want any new items you will need to hand the old ones over for disposal. You will not be able to order a new item without physically handing the old ones over. 4. KREs (exams) In the first few days you will be expected to take a pre-course Knowledge Check (20 marks) which is designed to test your CKP knowledge. As an ex-MSC and therefore exempted from the requirement to hold a Certificate of Knowledge in Policing, you are nevertheless expected to have the same (preferably better) knowledge of criminal law from your experience and training as an MSC. The Knowledge Check is not a pass/fail exam, but it does end up on your training record, and does colour how you are viewed by instructors. If you have been a competent MSC keeping your knowledge of law topped up, you should in theory have no problem getting 100% in the knowledge check - however a majority of people (including ex-MSCs) tend to fail this check, and it serves as a very hard stick with which the instructors will beat a sense of urgency into your training, and point out the holes in what you ought to know. KRE 1 takes place around Week 6 and comprises 40 questions in 60 minutes, from 20 topics - some of these will be taught subjects from Hendon classes, but the majority will be questions on basic crime - Theft, Burglary, Assaults, Public Order Act etc - again, these topics are no longer taught in the classroom at Hendon, and you are expected to have learnt them either in a CKP as an external applicant, or as part of your core knowledge as an MSC officer. KRE 2 takes place around Week 10 and comprises another 40 questions in 60 minutes, from a further 11 topics including Robbery, Offensive Weapons, Drugs, Breach of the peace, but will also include questions on topics that came up in KRE1. KRE3 comes up in Week 12 and comprises 60 questions over 90 minutes drawn from a further 9 topics plus the remainder of the course and CKP knowledge - in effect any topic can come up. The KRE pass marks are 75% - that is, 30 marks in KRE 1 and 2, and 45 marks in KRE 3 - however the pass mark is a basic minimum and you will be seriously struggling further in the course if you are scraping an exam at 75%. There are no 'sections' like in the old MSC foundation training KEEs, so you cannot retake one topic if you fail - you re-sit the whole exam. If you do fail an exam, you are free to re-sit each of the three KREs once (a week later) while remaining in your class. If you fail any re-sit, then you are put on action plan, served a warning that you may be dismissed without notice if you fail to improve, and you will be placed on the next available course behind you - typically 3 to 8 weeks behind. The 'counter' then resets once you join your new class, and you may again fail any KRE once and re-sit it a week later. If, however, you fail any re-sit having already been re-coursed, then typically you will be dismissed from the MPS without notice. As a slightly more positive note to the above, you WILL get significant support from your class mates, your tutors and the training management team if you start to struggle. If you ask for help you will get it, provided you put the work in. If you are re-coursed this is not a disaster as it happens to a few people in every course and is certainly no cause for shame as everyone learns at a different rate and has different demands and stresses outside of the job. 5. Hours and location You may or may not be based at Hendon RLC - currently training is taking place also at either Marlowe House in Sidcup, or Sovereign Gate in Richmond. Unless you really do live in deepest South London then it is preferable to be based at Hendon. Training is typically split into weeks of Early Turn (0700 to 1500 hours), and Late Turn (1400-2200 hours) shifts to start getting you used to Job hours. On earlies you are typically dismissed around 1430 and on lates around 2130 hours. On each day your class will be expected to be formed up and ready for inspection on the parade square at 0700 or 1400 hours, which in practice means being in uniform and ready outside at least ten minutes early, and the class formed up by 5 minutes to the hour. The instructors (often plus a sergeant, and occasionally an inspector or chief inspector) will walk onto the parade square at precisely the parade time. A drill instructor will typically be present ten minutes ahead for the first half of the course to teach the class how to parade properly. If you are NOT based at Hendon, then there is no morning parade or inspection. And the final week of drill practice before your passing out parade will be that much harder because of your lack of experience! I used to arrive at around 0600 to find parking in the local streets (there is none on the site), walk to the centre, get into uniform, have a relaxed breakfast and leave plenty of time to have coffee and avoid being stressed at the start of the day. Some people on every course will be always running onto the parade square doing buttons up with 90 seconds before parade, but those who struggle to get disciplined after a week or two will generally find the course a lot more difficult and end up being the ones who get re-coursed. Lateness is noted and is marked on your training record. 6. CPM and Passing out After week 13 at Hendon, you will join your posted OCU for five weeks on your Coached Patrol Module. You will typically receive your new warrant card and Oyster card on your very last day at Hendon before the CPM. The CPM varies wildly between OCUs - some boroughs operate a real coached patrol course, where you have a set of dedicated instructors and do street duties for the entirely of the CPM. In other places (such as Camden, in the new Central North OCU), there is no CPM whatsoever, and you join either a Neighbourhood Policing Team (if there is still one in existence) or in some cases the Emergency Response Patrol Team, and spend five weeks being mentored by senior PCs. Generally the provision of a structured Street Duties course depends on the number of people on your intake going to the same borough - if you have 16 officers all going to your borough, then there will usually be a Street Duties course, if that OCU provides one. If you are Billy no-mates going alone (like me), then you'll just be fitted neatly into an existing team somewhere and given someone to hold your hand for five weeks. During the CPM you will be expected to complete a set of MetPACs to demonstrate your progress - these are similar to the basic MSC PACs (Arrest offenders, Provide an intial response to incidents, etc) but with the addition of a few extras such as Intervew Suspects. You should have no problem completing these within five weeks, but you it is mandatory in order to return for your passing out parade. After the CPM all student officers go to Hendon (regardless of whether you were originally at Hendon or an RLC for your training). Monday and the first half of Tuesday are typically more talks and presentations, and some admin. From lunch time on Tuesday until Thursday afternoon the entire course will undertake intensive drill practice on the parade square - whatever the weather. This is basically as difficult as you want it to be depending on how much effort you are willing to put in. On Friday of your last week - it's finally Passing Out Parade time! This always takes place at Hendon on the parade square in front of the new Peel House (with rare exceptions such as the one at Horseguards Parade some years ago). POP day is an early start in order to get some practice and a full dress rehearsal in with the band, but it is a truly once-in-a-lifetime experience and certainly a fine tradition which makes all the effort you put into the course well worth it. 7. Any advice? Yes. Put as much effort into the course as you possibly can. Take pride in your appearance and your standards of behaviour and discipline. Unfortunately for the duration of the course you've pretty much got to abandon any pretense at a social life - you'll need to hit Blackstone's every day (whether after earlies or before lates) and pretty much all weekend too, if you want good marks. It might feel like you've become a hermit but remember it's only 13 weeks before the rest of your life and career. Get to know your class as quickly as possible, and work with them to build up your sense of team and friendship. Go for drinks after early turn, make a WhatsApp group, help each other out. They'll be your best line of support when the course gets difficult. Be prepared, now. Buy your copy of Blackstone's Handbook for Policing Students NOW (you are required to buy one for the course) - start reading and revising all of the core topics so you can reduce stress during the course. Most importantly (even though a bit cliché) - remember to have fun. You only get one shot at Hendon - you don't get a second chance to attempt it, and though you'll come back for courses during your career you'll never be a Student Officer again in your life. Enjoy every minute of it, make it the best experience you can, and keep looking forward to that day at the end where you get to salute the Commissioner and the flag in your white gloves in front of your family. Of course if there are any questions about anything, my inbox is always open!
  4. TD9FJ

    Staying patient and motivated?

    Maybe find some way to develop rather than plodding along (pun intended) in the same rut? I got stuck in the Doldrums last year when a complaint resulting in DPS investigation (now happily resolved) prevented me from going for promotion, which is what I really wanted to achieve over the summer. After a couple of weeks putting duties on the back burner and giving myself a break, I decided to mix things up a bit. I applied for an attachment with a Safer Transport Team on another borough, did an attachment with CID, opened up an opportunity to do some plain clothes work, set myself targets and generally either tried to do things I hadn't done before, or improved what I was doing already. Sometimes external factors conspire against you and make you feel like there are roadblocks in every direction. I find that the best way to avoid getting down is to find things to work on, that allow me to feel like I'm still making progress with something, at least - if perhaps not the main long term goal (which for me is also getting into the service as a regular).
  5. TD9FJ

    Retailer in administration

    In any case, regardless of the legal status of the property, it wouldn't be theft provided that the person had an reasonably held belief that he was justified in taking the item as fulfilment of his purchase. The actual owner of a piece of property (company or administrator etc.) is irrelevant - the theft only relies on the property belonging to another. You still need all five points to prove the offence, and the crux of the matter here is the dishonesty. One could debate whether the person's actions were dishonest based on the their behaviour as they took the item. Did they sneak in, pick it up and rush out, or did they walk in overtly and pick up the item? It would be hard to prove that the person knew their actions to be dishonest if the person was open about walking in and taking the item, if they had a receipt for their purchase. Even if they made an attempt to sneak it out unseen, they could still potentially present a reasonable defence by saying that they honestly believed that they had a right to take property that they had already purchased, but made the attempt discreetly so as to avoid a confrontation with staff. However - the person has already been told over the phone that their original purchase is now void due to the company being placed into administration. I think at this point, provided it was made clear that any unfulfilled orders with the company are no longer going to be fulfilled, it would be fairly clear to the customer that taking an item anyway would now be dishonest. Recovery of any money or goods would be a civil matter to take up with administrators. If I were to respond to store staff calling this is as shoplifting, then I would be inclined to resolve it at the scene as a civil dispute provided there was no loss to the company - i.e. if the person was stopped when leaving, and had ID and evidence to back their claim. If the person had no receipts or correspondence to back up their claim, then clearly there would be grounds for arrest (or, if the person is fully ID'd and can be contacted later, then a Caution + 3) and it would be time to report it as theft - and for the debate over the honesty of the customer's intentions to occur in a tape recorded interview at a police station.
  6. TD9FJ

    What I Did On Duty

    Cheers Rich! I've since had some great shifts (72 hours in 14 days with full time job on the side!) and I'm starting to learn how to handle people - highlights so far include going out on response to I grades in the area car, executing a warrant at a drugs bust, witnessing an RTC and sprinting up the road to be first on scene (alone) and my first arrest, for malicious comms, last weekend - so you're right in that there's plenty to keep us busy on borough! It surprised me how many of our specials were reluctant to join team on regular patrols and wanted to stick with other specials because team is definitely the place to learn your trade, and fast - I'm not in a hurry as such but I didn't sign up to sit at the back of a carrier all evening. I think my mind is made up as to where I go after I get IPS :-)
  7. TD9FJ

    What I Did On Duty

    Rank: Special Constable Service: First duty Force: Metropolitan Special Constabulary Location: East London Duty: 1900-0300 Friday night rowdy patrol All times approximate. 1745 - Arrived at the patrol base with plenty of time to spare; I'd visited previously for an induction (including locker and baton issue) and to collect my collar numbers, so I did at least have an inkling of where I was going! Met the supervising officer and had introductions with the other specials on the shift. Booked out my radio, logged onto the systems and clocked myself in for the first time. 1900 - Briefing and taskings: As the new boy I had to deliver the briefing, so ticked off my first item on the competencies list for IPS! Luckily reading from a Powerpoint presentation isn't the hardest of tasks. 2045 - After a long wait for the regulars to return the van we were hoping to use, we bundle in and head off down the borough to go out on foot patrol around the pubs and bars which will be busy on a Friday night. 2100 - En route to the patrol area a call comes in for units to search for a suicidal male on the phone to the control room who is threatening to throw himself into the traffic on a busy high street. We drive around the area he's reported to be in but no trace after a lengthy search involving multiple units. 2230 - On the way back up the borough an Immediate grade call comes in; MOPs have reported seeing a male dragging a female into a property in the area. We are the closest unit so make our way there as quickly as we can. 2240 - We arrive on scene along with two regulars on response and bundle out. The address is a block of flats and as we arrive on scene a male matching the description given appears in the bottom of the main stairwell and freezes when he sees the two vehicles and dozen officers standing just outside. The response driver opens the entrance door and asks him which flat he's from - turns out its the address we're after. He realises just a moment too late that it's him we're looking for; he turns to run but a cuff is slapped on at lightning speed and a bit of a rollaround ensues. He's promptly arrested on suspicion of assault and taken off in a van, which leaves us to go upstairs and investigate the flat. Turns out the female in question is moderately drunk, insists that she 'fell over' and that her partner was helping her to get back indoors. Lengthy report writing and statement taking ensues so we end up hanging around for quite a while as there are no other drivers available. 0030 - After tying up the loose ends at the previous call we take a trip to the borough custody centre to collect one of our specials who was bussed off with the regular officers and the prisoner in order to provide a statement (he got hands on the suspect during the roll-around). We have a tour of the custody centre (including our first look inside the surprisingly comfortable cells). 0100 - We head into another part of town for some long-needed refs and to take advantage of a 24 hour drive through takeaway - but just moments away from KFC we get another immediate for a vulnerable missing person a short distance away. 0120 - Turns out the missing person is a 17 year old who was placed into a foster home that morning. Rather than making himself at home he's taken himself and his suitcase on a night bus straight back to his parents' home address in another part of London. After some phone calls to social services and his parents it's decided that he's safe and well where he is, so we head back for refs. 0145 - Refs! Finally... Bargain Bucket goes down well. 0215 - A call comes in to attend a reported burglary a couple of miles away, so we head off. 0225 - En-route we overhear a call for units to attend a nearby 24-hour Tesco to deal with a shoplifter detained by store security. Another unit has arrived at the burglary we were going to, so we head straight to the shop instead. 0230 - We arrive to find that the female shoplifter has escaped from the store, assaulting both store guards in the process and threatening to come by a short time later with her brother and his friends to smash the place up. Unfortunately for the woman, in her haste to leave the store she neglected to take her handbag with her - including her purse and driving licence (bonzer!), so we seize it and tag it while five officers scout the area for any sign of the escapee. No trace so we hang around to make sure her threats were empty while seizing CCTV and taking statements. 0300 - Back to the custody centre to file reports, write statements and complete the rest of the paperwork - this proves to be quite a lengthy process! 0430 - Finally back to the patrol base. We de-camp, sign radios back in and book out for the night. I somehow manage to get myself and my motorbike back home as the sun is making an appearance over the horizon. Absolutely shattered, but looking forward to my 2nd duty the next morning.
  8. TD9FJ

    Shoulder numbers on tunic

    Also attesting at Hendon this Sunday - see you there =) (Sun 16B, JC)
  9. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27224887 Hmm - New PACE Code A? Or maybe even new PACE!? Theresa May was pushing for an even more stringent change to S&S powers than what will be proposed. Surely a more concrete definition of 'reasonable grounds' robs us of a great deal of flexibility? Will be interesting to see what comes out of this.
  10. Jake, Your argument is ridiculous. You are arguing over the exact definitions of words, which has no impact on the legitimacy of the powers in question. Code G says 'ascertain'. This means (according to any English dictionary) to find something out; to make sure of its truth. I recommend you look up your definitions before attempting to pick apart the law using technicalities based on the exact wording used. The wording of the legislation is practically irrelevant as long as it unambiguously coveys (to the majority of people) the intention behind it, and clearly sets out the limitations on the powers conferred by it. As it has been said before, it is the job of the courts to decide on those matters and not the police. You say 'Isnt that what all discussion on law entail? [sic]. No. Discussion on the law to most people here - from what I can tell - is talking about how we can best understand the powers given to police under law and how to best put them into practice for the public good. Provided that we act: - According to the law, as it is understood and agreed on - In the public interest - and with integrity and honesty in all matters Then I don't give a monkeys about the specific definitions of every word in every act written since the Magna friggin Carta. If the definition and intention is clear to us, that's all that matters.
  11. TD9FJ

    Removing unwanted visitor from home

    I99, I'd not come across that case law consolidating the power of an owner to to use force to eject trespassers from property so I will stash that away accordingly. Regarding S117 PACE / Section 3 powers, I was trying to imply that a constable would be entitled to use reasonable force *specifically* under the provisions of PACE (in addition to his common law / S3 CLA 1967 powers) where an offence has been committed and the officer is exercising his PACE powers (i.e. after the sherry glass was thrown at a person - he is now reacting to an offence taking place) - while pointing out that the civilian occupants have as much right to use reasonable force to protect themselves and others, but only through any-person powers (common law & Section 3). Please correct me if I am wrong but I don't see how PACE is not applicable to a constable in that scenario? PoshDDO - Agreed that S61 CJPOA doesn't refer to a public place, but that's specific to the powers of police to remove trespassers (in which case yes, such behaviour from any one of two or more people present would satisfy condition a) ) - I was referring to an earlier suggestion that a public order offence might be used to justify the use of force, in which case if the implication was that these were section 4, 4A, or 5 POA offences then this would not apply, since both the person displaying the offensive behaviour and the people observing it are all within a dwelling (although the offence would still be committed if they were on private property that was not a dwelling).
  12. TD9FJ

    Removing unwanted visitor from home

    I don't think it's as simple as 'ask, warn, eject' - Under Section 61 CJ&POA 1994 there are two conditions that have to be met before a constable can even instruct a trespasser to leave, never mind forcibly ejecting him from a private dwelling: 1) Two or more persons are trespassing on land and are present there with the common purpose of residing there for any period, that reasonable steps have been taken by or on behalf of the occupier to ask them to leave AND 2) Either: a) That any of those persons has caused damage to the land or to property on the land or used threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour towards the occupier, a member of his family or an employee or agent of his OR b) That those persons have between them six or more vehicles on the land So in the case that uncle Bill has got the hump after too much Christmas sherry and is refusing to leave the living room, a constable (or anyone else) has no power to remove him until he commits an offence. Public Order offences are not applicable here because the abusive or threatening behaviour or language are occurring inside a dwelling, not in a public place. Of course when he throws the sherry glass at auntie Sharon then we (constables) can step in wielding Section 117, and the rest of the family can use their Section 3 powers to restrain him and wait for the police if they don't have the benefit of our help. In short you have no power to forcibly eject someone from your home, regardless of whether you gave them leave to be there or not, until they commit an offence in its own right, or unless you can find mitigating circumstances that would justify 'reasonable force', such as being threatened - and it all comes down to what you can justify in court. Annoyingly trespass is one of those things which is only a useful term when used to define other offences (for example, you can't commit burglary under section 9(1)(a) or 9(1)(b) without trespassing, but the trespassing itself is not an offence). Don't you just love the vaguaries of English common law :new_yummy: