quickdantheman

SC - Appeal Process/Rights On Vetting?

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Hi All,

Firstly a huge thank you to all who are currently serving this Country, under any role that is currently within a police force, I truly admire what you represent.

My joining this site is very recent, and a last port of call if I am completely honest. I have had to many knockbacks now over the years, but most recent is vetting.

I am told as an external applicant that I have no right of appeal, & that section 6 of some type of act 1996 there is no reason to disclose the decision to myself.

Added to this, I am informed that under no circumstances, in any capacity or post am I able to apply to this force again, I am stunned!.

I have sought local assistance via my local MP, which at first looked promising etc, with the avenue of data protection, right of appeal, subject to access form etc..............

Sadly this concluded my MP informed me with the Chief Constable himself explaining via telephone, that the decision was final, that I am not of suitability in the role of constable and there was no right of appeal?

Is there anyone out there, that can look at this ethically and explain to me where I go now. I am confused, as I currently work as a volunteer in an organisation that works from the same office as police. So I can pass a CRB but not vetting? Confused.......................?

Appreciate any advice

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On 12/17/2017 at 13:13, quickdantheman said:

Hi All,

Firstly a huge thank you to all who are currently serving this Country, under any role that is currently within a police force, I truly admire what you represent.

My joining this site is very recent, and a last port of call if I am completely honest. I have had to many knockbacks now over the years, but most recent is vetting.

I am told as an external applicant that I have no right of appeal, & that section 6 of some type of act 1996 there is no reason to disclose the decision to myself.

Added to this, I am informed that under no circumstances, in any capacity or post am I able to apply to this force again, I am stunned!.

I have sought local assistance via my local MP, which at first looked promising etc, with the avenue of data protection, right of appeal, subject to access form etc..............

Sadly this concluded my MP informed me with the Chief Constable himself explaining via telephone, that the decision was final, that I am not of suitability in the role of constable and there was no right of appeal?

Is there anyone out there, that can look at this ethically and explain to me where I go now. I am confused, as I currently work as a volunteer in an organisation that works from the same office as police. So I can pass a CRB but not vetting? Confused.......................?

Appreciate any advice

Are you sure they haven't declined your vetting due to a conflicft of interest?

I'm not sure that working in the same office as police would count as a conflict of interest... I suppose it depends on what your role is in your current volunteer job, and what information you have access to.

Did you declare EVERYTHING that involved government authorities in a negative way on your vetting form?

Do you know anyone that you live with, or who you put on your form who has criminal convictions, or is well known to police?

CRB and vetting are two different things entirely, CRB is such a basic check (the basic one anyway) - I had a CRB check (now DBS - Disclosure & Barring Service) done in 2016, when I worked as a travelling IT technician for several schools across the UK, it's such a basic check, all I had to do was fill out a form, there was no probing done with regards to who I live with, how my finances were, etc.

Compared to vetting whereby everything has to be declared, they check your credit report, speak to referees, run you through PNC and other counter terrorism databases. 

I mean this in the nicest way, DBS (formerly CRB) and vetting are two different things entirely, please don't even think of comparing them, even the highest level of DBS check is a walk in the park compared to proper SC/CTC and RV (force) vetting.

It's entirely possible you could be a criminal and not pass vetting, but pass a DBS check, you could be convicted of fraud, so fail vetting, but that wouldn't preclude you from working with young people, so you'd likely "pass" so to speak a DBS check, although it may appear on the record and be shown.

Edited by PC Will

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Also, to add to this, it's worth noting, that if a police force don't give a proper reason for rejecting you, it's usually on the basis of information they've found about some third party you have a connection to, whether it be a friend, someone you knew, or someone you lived with in the past or still live with. They cannot disclose who the person is that is causing the issue and why, due to data protection act, if they did so, and disclosed who the person was and that they have a conviction for xyz they could be sued for a lot of money, not only is it a breach of data protection but also right to private life.

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I agree with @PC Will. It sounds like it is something to do with someone you know/are related to. They can be quite specific when it is to do with you personally. 

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Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't feel its a conflict of interest, genuinely, as 2 of my team who are volunteers are current specials in the force that knocked me back, as well as one of my colleagues in my full time job. I am listening to his experiences with interest all day, and its so hard I cant tell you all.

I declared everything that I know of on my form, you know, the usual, read, re read, have a friend, or wife re read, ask family questions to the point where they feel they are applying to the police, re: declaring "anything at all just tell me", so please understand how stupid I feel and demoralised to be on here in front of you all.

I only live with my partner and 3 children, she is a volunteer with a separate child organisation and has never had any involvement with police.

I completely agree with the advice offered on a DBS and vetting checks, I know they are completely different, really, I am just truly upset and feel very winded about what I currently do as a volunteer, and what I am unable to do, with out a reason given. That's the killer, like my wife has left me without a reason, its the only way to explain it. 

With data protection acts and policies etc, I completely understand the position the police are into, but I will state that I am not asking for the police to point the finger at any specific individual or organisation. I simply need to know if it is myself that can improve? Is it me that is the issue directly, mistaken identity maybe? Or if not a 3rd party or organisation conflict is the issue, and will as a result be unsuccessful with any Police Force. Instead on being left with a false hope that "Maybe another force is a go".

This sounds like hindsight, but really, with so much going on in my life, as with everyone else, if its a no, then I feel it is not much to ask for me to at least be given closure. Look at it this way, when asked by friends family, or police colleagues, I cant stress enough how much of a muppet I look when I cant answer people why I don't "JOIN"". Especially when people see my passion, my interest, and my personality with what I believe in with how I am as a person, perhaps I am not explaining it very well, it is so taxing.

All in all, the Police for me, are inspirational in what they do, and are faced with daily, I really admire what they have to do and respect them as people, not uniforms, with out order the community would be total chaos. So a balance on how we delegate that authority whilst still being people orientated is a massive and difficult undertaking.

Where do I channel my interest with this? I genuinely would be so proud to wear POLICE and stand tall, as a role model to my kids and the future youth of this Country. I am exhausted in this quest and can not and will not pour anymore time into grabbing the horns of the police, they are already massively over stretched and terribly underfunded.

I will end on, one thing that I have is the same thing that I am sure most of the police staff have when they signed up. That is, in both my personal & even in my private life, is I am always the one stepping in where most step out.

I apologise this may seem long winded, but I again am so very grateful for the time you have shown me, as well as your advise. Merry Christmas to all of you, enjoy your families this time of year, they are the heart of us all :) 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/21/2017 at 08:17, quickdantheman said:

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't feel its a conflict of interest, genuinely, as 2 of my team who are volunteers are current specials in the force that knocked me back, as well as one of my colleagues in my full time job. I am listening to his experiences with interest all day, and its so hard I cant tell you all.

I declared everything that I know of on my form, you know, the usual, read, re read, have a friend, or wife re read, ask family questions to the point where they feel they are applying to the police, re: declaring "anything at all just tell me", so please understand how stupid I feel and demoralised to be on here in front of you all.

I only live with my partner and 3 children, she is a volunteer with a separate child organisation and has never had any involvement with police.

I completely agree with the advice offered on a DBS and vetting checks, I know they are completely different, really, I am just truly upset and feel very winded about what I currently do as a volunteer, and what I am unable to do, with out a reason given. That's the killer, like my wife has left me without a reason, its the only way to explain it. 

With data protection acts and policies etc, I completely understand the position the police are into, but I will state that I am not asking for the police to point the finger at any specific individual or organisation. I simply need to know if it is myself that can improve? Is it me that is the issue directly, mistaken identity maybe? Or if not a 3rd party or organisation conflict is the issue, and will as a result be unsuccessful with any Police Force. Instead on being left with a false hope that "Maybe another force is a go".

This sounds like hindsight, but really, with so much going on in my life, as with everyone else, if its a no, then I feel it is not much to ask for me to at least be given closure. Look at it this way, when asked by friends family, or police colleagues, I cant stress enough how much of a muppet I look when I cant answer people why I don't "JOIN"". Especially when people see my passion, my interest, and my personality with what I believe in with how I am as a person, perhaps I am not explaining it very well, it is so taxing.

All in all, the Police for me, are inspirational in what they do, and are faced with daily, I really admire what they have to do and respect them as people, not uniforms, with out order the community would be total chaos. So a balance on how we delegate that authority whilst still being people orientated is a massive and difficult undertaking.

Where do I channel my interest with this? I genuinely would be so proud to wear POLICE and stand tall, as a role model to my kids and the future youth of this Country. I am exhausted in this quest and can not and will not pour anymore time into grabbing the horns of the police, they are already massively over stretched and terribly underfunded.

I will end on, one thing that I have is the same thing that I am sure most of the police staff have when they signed up. That is, in both my personal & even in my private life, is I am always the one stepping in where most step out.

I apologise this may seem long winded, but I again am so very grateful for the time you have shown me, as well as your advise. Merry Christmas to all of you, enjoy your families this time of year, they are the heart of us all :) 

 

 

 

 

I can't begin to imagine how you feel, I was a Special and am now a regular PC in the Met, and having been through the vetting process twice can say it is very hit and miss, the first one for my specials recruitment was spot on, I knew within 4 weeks, the vetting process for my regulars recruitment process however was absolutely appalling, I won't go into it in detail because it's a long story, but the long and short is vetting department used an old form to process my vetting check, and didn't ask me to update it, after 6 weeks I chased them to see how they were getting on, only to be told my vetting application had been cancelled (some weeks prior by the sound of it) and that i'd need to speak to HR to sort it, no one notified me in any way, yet the onus was on me to sort it out, sort out a problem I wouldn't have known existed had I not chased them up after 6 weeks of hearing nothing.

If they are saying "YOU" are in no way suitable for the role of constable, that would suggest it is something you have done, however, of course, you would know if you had done anything in the past that would preclude you from joining such an organisation, furthermore it wouldn't come as a surprise, which it seems to have done.

If they are stating "You are in no way suitable for the role of constable for this force", then my suggesting would be it's that force being very fussy, I am guessing this is at the paper sift stage, rather than the full on vetting stage right down the end of the line? Have you taken a day 1 assessment at a SEARCH center?

Some forces are more lenient than others, for example BTP will not recruit anyone who has had a caution unless there are exceptional circumstances, other forces usually don't care if you've had a caution.

I have been told (hearsay and all that) that serving officers in the Met where I work have been convicted of drug use and drug dealing in the past, years prior to wanting to join, and were successful in joining the force, so I'd not be put off if I were you.

Personally if I were you, i'd say onwards and upwards, if that force doesn't want you, look at another force, better to work for your second favourite force in the job you love than be told you can't work for the force you wanted to join and then become stuck in some boring non-police job you hate, right?

When I left sixth form in mid 2013, I thought IT was the career for me, turns out I was wrong, I did 1 year in Telecoms, 2 years in IT, a 6 month stint in a Tesco store which I absolutely hated, and would gladly never ever go back to, and then another 4/5 months in IT before being out of work and then started training for the regs August 30th this year, now i've joined the Met full time I realize how boring an IT career would be, the only thing I miss about IT is the pay, I was taking home significantly more than I do being a PC, which unfortunately is the sorry state of affairs we're in.

Which force is this for?

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