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Jre

Drugs and buyers - who to stop

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You're on routine foot patrol, alone. You turn a corner and witness male No1 hand something to another male No2 in exchange for cash. You're not sure what male No1 handed to male No2. 

Both see you, and quickly walk away in different directions.

Who, if anybody, do you speak to / stop (bearing in mind you're alone and they're now heading in different directions) and would you have grounds to search either of the males?

Thanks. 

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As it stands now that will be unlikely to be grounds for a search on it's own.  You're likely going to needs extra grounds to search here (I would assume).  What's intel do you have on the area?  Are either of them known for drugs?  What gave you grounds for suspicion?  etc etc.  

Probably want a word with Male #2, as at this point he's more likely to have drugs on him than the guy walking off with cash.  Just having over "something" on it's own would likely be a classed as an illegal search.  Maybe walk after the guy, and if he rabbits you're going to have to run and then do a search.  

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Let's say there intel on the area for drug offences, but the two males at this point in time are not known to you. If either male #1 or male #2 dart off from you, is this grounds to give chase and conduct a stop search? (Providing they have no explanation as to why they saw you and ran).

My concern with searching male No2 is that yes, he may have drugs on him, but without seeing exactly what was handed to him you can't say for sure that male No 1 is a dealer/supplier. Therefore you may catch a customer but not the dealer.

My concern with searching male No1 is that he may have nothing else on him except for cash, and potentially you've lost out on stopping male No2 and finding drugs. 

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1 minute ago, Jre said:

Let's say there intel on the area for drug offences, but the two males at this point in time are not known to you. If either male #1 or male #2 dart off from you, is this grounds to give chase and conduct a stop search? (Providing they have no explanation as to why they saw you and ran).

My concern with searching male No2 is that yes, he may have drugs on him, but without seeing exactly what was handed to him you can't say for sure that male No 1 is a dealer/supplier. Therefore you may catch a customer but not the dealer.

My concern with searching male No1 is that he may have nothing else on him except for cash, and potentially you've lost out on stopping male No2 and finding drugs. 

If there is intel on street exchanges etc then your briefing info will cover that, and likely you're OK to have words anyway.  Plus long-term drug users aren't the most healthy bunch, so following, and maybe saying hello will possibly make him rabbit. 

You watched a guy hand over some cash in exchange for something else you didn't see.  You know #1 has cash on him, but there is nothing illegal in that.  He _may_ still have some drugs on him, but likely he's only carried enough to sell on the deal he's already set up, and the meeting may just be an exchange.  

If it drugs then #2 WILL have them on him, and you've got a user carrying drugs, and some intel on the dealer (possibly).  Builds up the Intel on the area, and a description (possibly a name) of a dealer. 

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11 hours ago, Beaker said:

If there is intel on street exchanges etc then your briefing info will cover that, and likely you're OK to have words anyway.  Plus long-term drug users aren't the most healthy bunch, so following, and maybe saying hello will possibly make him rabbit. 

You watched a guy hand over some cash in exchange for something else you didn't see.  You know #1 has cash on him, but there is nothing illegal in that.  He _may_ still have some drugs on him, but likely he's only carried enough to sell on the deal he's already set up, and the meeting may just be an exchange.  

If it drugs then #2 WILL have them on him, and you've got a user carrying drugs, and some intel on the dealer (possibly).  Builds up the Intel on the area, and a description (possibly a name) of a dealer. 

Thanks for the reply Beaker - I assume, if some dealers only carry enough for the arranged meet, that it's quite difficult to prove who the prolific dealers are? 

Lets say that you went after male #2 (the customer) and asked a few questions but you weren't satisfied with the answers and you believed that he's in possession of a controlled substance. You search him and find drugs - does this then give you enough grounds to stop male #1 if you see him in the same location on the same day 'loitering' ? 

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9 minutes ago, Jre said:

Thanks for the reply Beaker - I assume, if some dealers only carry enough for the arranged meet, that it's quite difficult to prove who the prolific dealers are? 

Lets say that you went after male #2 (the customer) and asked a few questions but you weren't satisfied with the answers and you believed that he's in possession of a controlled substance. You search him and find drugs - does this then give you enough grounds to stop male #1 if you see him in the same location on the same day 'loitering' ? 

I'm not sure there to be honest.  I'm new, but I'm working on what I've picked up already from people, the fact I'm massively suspicious according to my wife, and I prefer to aim for an 'easy' win if the bigger win is down the road.  Other people may have other approaches as well. 

 

Edit : in reference to the dealer only carrying enough to sell.  I was discussing how it works with a former dealer I was introduced to.  He said it was rare for street dealers to carry much unless they had just picked their stuff up when he was doing it 20 years back.  His current experience is solely as a customer, but arranging a pickup somewhere other than a dealer's house seems to still be the order of the day. 

Edited by Beaker

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Hi Beaker, thanks for that. 

It's difficult to gauge what constitutes 'reasonable grounds' to search somebody, but I'm not currently an officer so haven't had any training on the issue. It's an interesting topic as I'm sure it's quite subjective. 

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Putting aside the circumstances required to justify in law a search, the suspected dealer every time. Whilst person B may have drugs now in their possession, and person A may not, the intelligence potentially gathered through a lawful stop and search of A (name, address (if given), descriptions, IMEIs, VRMs etc) is 10x more valuable.

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I have two grounds so far - something changing hands and the two men walking away on sight of a police officer. I don't know what it is at this point, but on the balance of probability, something unsavoury, as I think they don't want to talk to me (let's assume I used deodorant).

My actions would be as follows: shout out asking the males to stop - if they don't, pursue Male 2; he'll either do a runner, in which case, one more ground, or he'll stop, in which case I ask him what he was doing; depending on his answers, I may search him or let him go.

I would be confident to search based on this. If there's intel on drug dealing in the area, that's gravy.

Good point above about the police doing their job - I would not mind being searched at all if it keeps us safe. After all, I consent to a search when I go through airport security.

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19 hours ago, Polizist said:

I have two grounds so far - something changing hands and the two men walking away on sight of a police officer. I don't know what it is at this point, but on the balance of probability, something unsavoury, as I think they don't want to talk to me (let's assume I used deodorant).

My actions would be as follows: shout out asking the males to stop - if they don't, pursue Male 2; he'll either do a runner, in which case, one more ground, or he'll stop, in which case I ask him what he was doing; depending on his answers, I may search him or let him go.

I would be confident to search based on this. If there's intel on drug dealing in the area, that's gravy.

Good point above about the police doing their job - I would not mind being searched at all if it keeps us safe. After all, I consent to a search when I go through airport security.

i wouldnt say airport searches are by consent, they are quite likely a condition of cartage, but not included on any t&Cs you might come across whilst booking a flight, so if your not a regular flyer, you could find yourself being,searched with out ever having consented to it of indeed know that its likely to happen

unlike say a night club or a concert venue, you cant having got to the point where you are about to be searched, just say you know what, I don't want to be searched I'm leaving, as you will then find yourself being detained for a search

Edited by george b

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Always the dealer, why bother with a possession offence, even if the dealer has just supplied the last of his street deals you will still obtain valuable intelligence by identifying him. 

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7 hours ago, george b said:

i wouldnt say airport searches are by consent, they are quite likely a condition of cartage, but not included on any t&Cs you might come across whilst booking a flight, so if your not a regular flyer, you could find yourself being,searched with out ever having consented to it of indeed know that its likely to happen

unlike say a night club or a concert venue, you cant having got to the point where you are about to be searched, just say you know what, I don't want to be searched I'm leaving, as you will then find yourself being detained for a search

An airport screening search is a condition of carriage but is a search most certainly by consent, otherwise you would need a legal power to conduct it.  

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13 hours ago, funkywingnut said:

An airport screening search is a condition of carriage but is a search most certainly by consent, otherwise you would need a legal power to conduct it.  

I thought they had legal powers under the bylaws

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14 minutes ago, george b said:

I thought they had legal powers under the bylaws

Not to my knowlaged, given that airport staff are civilians and not accredited I fail to see how they would. 

Thats not to say if you had RGB as a police officer you couldn't stop search.

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5 hours ago, funkywingnut said:

Not to my knowlaged, given that airport staff are civilians and not accredited I fail to see how they would. 

Thats not to say if you had RGB as a police officer you couldn't stop search.

well c&e have a right to search anyone in n airport and they to are civilians

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