Sign in to follow this  
BobCat

Traffic Stop - Showing No Insurance

Recommended Posts

Traffic Stop – Showing No Insurance

You are on mobile patrol in a marked police car. The ANPR in your vehicle pings up indicating that the X reg blue ford focus just ahead of you has no insurance. You follow the vehicle whilst your operator runs the car through PNC which confirms that no valid certificate of insurance is held. You put the blues on and the driver pulls over.

At the side of the road, the driver of the car explains that he is insured, he arranged it this afternoon. He shows you a thirty minute phone call on his mobile phone to a phone number which you google on your phone, and confirm it is Peak Insurance.

The male tells you that it is his car, that he has a full UK driving licence and that he’s been in trouble with the police for a few things before, but not for a while. He lives on the other side of the city, but he’s on his way to see his girlfriend who lives on this side of the city – though he’s rather vague about where exactly. You go back to the car and run PNC checks on him and his driving licence. He has a full substantive driving licence with no points. The car is registered to him at the address he gave, as also shown on his driving licence. He is very well known to PNC by name, but hasn’t been in trouble for a couple of years. He flashes violent (assault police), conceals (drugs in underwear) and drugs.

You phone the Motor Insurance Bureau (MIB) police liaison team who state they cannot see an insurance policy on the vehicle on their systems. The MIB state that they will call Peak Insurance to confirm. 5 minutes later, MIB call back and inform you that Peak Insurance closed at 8pm. It’s now 8:30pm.

How are you going to deal with this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you still use them? We haven't had them for years....

Very very very rarely thanks to modern technology, but yes they're still an option for us. To save money, our VDRS's use the same exact form, so we could get him to fix any vehicle defects at the same time too.

Edited by kit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All depends if you believe them or not. Your options are seize it or get him to produce his documents. If you believe him, he's known so it should be easier enough to find him then just get him to produce. For piece of mind you could just phone the insurance the following day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither you or MIB can confirm he has insurance, so you have to seize the vehicle, no ifs or buts.

I don't think you have to, I think what happens next comes down to local policies....

If you see a certificate of insurance, for example, and believe there is an admin error, e.g. typo on the VRM on the certificate, I think it's a bit extreme to seize on a Sunday or at 4am in the morning because MIB can't get in touch with the Insurer because they are closed.

I would agree if you said you had to follow it up and confirm the Insurance by making enquiries in the following days.... As long as you can justify why you've let them go, my opinion is that its the best way to deal with it - no point making some nice member of the public's life a nightmare by taking their car when you don't absolutely have to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that his phone was connected to a supplier of insurance for a while does not prove a policy has been taken out. On the basis I don't believe the vehicle's insured I'd seize it. There's no way I'd let an uninsured vehilce drive off. If he was able to take out another policy there and then on a smartphone/tablet online and I was happy it'd been paid up and was valid I'd let him keep the car and drive off. I'd still report him for driving with no insurance though as he would still have committed the offence prior to taking out the new policy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd note the date the car was first registered to him, and see whether that correlates to an insurance renewal date of today, which may lend more credibility to what he's saying at the roadside and his assertion that he took out / renewed his insurance today.

The reality to this type of situation is that it comes down to your belief, and there are many aspects to how that belief is influenced and informed.

If I was inclined to believe him, then I'd issue a HORT1 to close the loop. If I wasn't then I'd seize it.

Based on what I've read, I'd be asking a few more questions before coming to a conclusion.

In any case in our force, our duty skipper has to sign off on all seizures anyway - regular or special.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had a no-insurance on Sunday. Vehicle showing no insurance on ANPR, expired in February. Car stopped, driver adamant she was insured. Also there was a smell of intoxicating liquor so was breath tested.

As not far from home we took her home to get documents- couldn't find any. Showed us payments on her online banking app of a monthly payment being taken saying this was the car insurance. Still no real proof and insurance company shut. Returned to vehicle, found a policy confirmation letter in the glove box but no certificate. Date of confirmation was 3 months prior to the day of the insurance ending on ANPR screen which suggested monthly payment policy. Driver confirmed, stated there was a problem with direct debit but it had been paid.

As PNC said no insurance, insurance company shut and no real proof- vehicle was 165d. Driver interviewed and reported in the car. Driver was told to contact insurance company first thing and my partner said he would send a data protection request to the insurance company for definitive proof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd note the date the car was first registered to him, and see whether that correlates to an insurance renewal date of today, which may lend more credibility to what he's saying at the roadside and his assertion that he took out / renewed his insurance today.

The reality to this type of situation is that it comes down to your belief, and there are many aspects to how that belief is influenced and informed.

If I was inclined to believe him, then I'd issue a HORT1 to close the loop. If I wasn't then I'd seize it.

Based on what I've read, I'd be asking a few more questions before coming to a conclusion.

In any case in our force, our duty skipper has to sign off on all seizures anyway - regular or special.

HORT 1s were withdrawn from the Met about 10 years ago, and you would be in deep trouble letting a car go that didn't have insurance, why put yourself in a difficult position in the first place. PNC is what you go on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HORT 1s were withdrawn from the Met about 10 years ago, and you would be in deep trouble letting a car go that didn't have insurance, why put yourself in a difficult position in the first place. PNC is what you go on.

They've not been withdrawn from us, and if I felt it was a difficult position I'd seize it, if I felt it was more likely to be insured I wouldn't.

PNC is simply an indicator, any number of issues can arise with PNC, including but not limited to, typo's, failure of updates, insuffient info from the insurer, fleet policy issues etc. Hence the extra digging and not just relying on PNC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without a physical certificate of insurance I would seize on the strength of the PNC record alone, with MIB shut there is no way of checking with the insurance companies as they are probably shut as well.

Would you make further checks if PNC came up that a suspect stopped was WOW.....probably not.

Edited by nearlydone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An insurance certificate in itself is no guarantee of insurance, and so I would and do conduct checks if one is produced.

WoW is a different issue completely from the one we're talking about.

I have the option to use HORT1 so I have and do in specific circumstances.

I've had no issues at all.

This is not a one size fits all solution. Now more than ever we are scrutinised for proportionality in what we do. Hence this is a tool and under the right circumstances I use it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are 25 hidden replies in this thread that you do not currently have access to as a Guest User of our forum. To unlock the forum register for an account for FREE today by clicking HERE
Sign in to follow this