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bian101

Arrest section 5?

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Hi guys,

Just been watching the documentory 'the specials' and this girl is arrested around 8 min in for section 5 for swearing etc - but there are no members of public around?

I thought the offence had to have someone offended by the behaviour? Since we cant be 'alarmed, harassed or distressed' as 'easily' as the public (apparently) it would take more than a few swear words right?

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The POA S5 is about words, behaviour and signs too. She was behaving in a disorderly manner after having had more warnings than I would have given, so she gets locked up.

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Hi guys,

Just been watching the documentory 'the specials' and this girl is arrested around 8 min in for section 5 for swearing etc - but there are no members of public around?

I thought the offence had to have someone offended by the behaviour? Since we cant be 'alarmed, harassed or distressed' as 'easily' as the public (apparently) it would take more than a few swear words right?

how do you know there are no members of the public around? the camera only shows one angle

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I think the below will answer your question.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

(2)An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

(3)It is a defence for the accused to prove

(a)that he had no reason to believe that there was any person within hearing or sight who was likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, or

(b)that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or

©that his conduct was reasonable.

(4)A constable may arrest a person without warrant if

(a)he engages in offensive conduct which a constable warns him to stop, and

(b)he engages in further offensive conduct immediately or shortly after the warning.

(5)In subsection (4)offensive conduct means conduct the constable reasonably suspects to constitute an offence under this section, and the conduct mentioned in paragraph (a) and the further conduct need not be of the same nature.

(6)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

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True, but I was referring to general public

I was more agreeing with you with my post, it was someone obviously present but outside the angle of view :aok:

I think the below will answer your question.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

(2)An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

(3)It is a defence for the accused to prove

(a)that he had no reason to believe that there was any person within hearing or sight who was likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, or

(b)that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or

©that his conduct was reasonable.

(4)A constable may arrest a person without warrant if

(a)he engages in offensive conduct which a constable warns him to stop, and

(b)he engages in further offensive conduct immediately or shortly after the warning.

(5)In subsection (4)offensive conduct means conduct the constable reasonably suspects to constitute an offence under this section, and the conduct mentioned in paragraph (a) and the further conduct need not be of the same nature.

(6)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

Actually that doesn't does it?

The 'unoffended police officer' comes from case law.

Edited by TroyTempest

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was it in a residential street? if memory serves POA applies to people likely to be alarmed indoors provided he offending party is also not indoors (same dwelling or in visible/hearing range)

someone please correct me if otherwise

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It's the likelihood of causing HAD. There doesn't actually need to be anyone around.

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It's the likelihood of causing HAD. There doesn't actually need to be anyone around.

I thought the likelihood was for "likely to be offended" not "likely to be in the area"?

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The POA S5 is about words, behaviour and signs too. She was behaving in a disorderly manner after having had more warnings than I would have given, so she gets locked up.

Exactly. Most officers give a lot of warnings these days for S5.

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Exactly. Most officers give a lot of warnings these days for S5.

They do? if you think its a lot now, you should have been around a few years ago when it was part of the legislation and was every time!

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I thought the likelihood was for "likely to be offended" not "likely to be in the area"?

So you're in a street and you're giving it the section 5's, you know that it is likely that there are people in those houses and they can probably hear what's going on. You've not recieved any complaint from them.

I see what you're saying but there doesn't actually have to be a person in front of you when the offence takes place.

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R5!, I remember when the act first came out that we were told that there didn't have to be any one around , in fact in the first week or two of using it I was stood at the top of town area with my partner watching the world go around so to speak , when a man walked passed who had drunk more than he could handle, he said F------ pigs, i said to him the usual i.e." can you moderate your language and stop swearing , you are upsetting people," he walked on around the market place toward another two bobbies about one hundred yards away, I radioed to tell them that this lad had had a warning for section 5 and what he had said,( I left out the f word) sure enough he said pretty much the same as he passed them, but he didn't get any more warnings , he was in the van and up to the station in two shakes of a lambs tail. I think they changed this warning procedure a year or two later so that he had to warned again if it was a different officer who arrested him,thats if my memory serves me right.Rich.

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Camera crew aren't cops!.

My way of dealiing with a 5 is to say,

1st one's free,

2nd is a warning,

3rd one's a booking, or a nicking, or a kicking out of the stn.

I very rarely do a 5 ( if it's just me there ) but do stick people on for byelaw 6 now & then.

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