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Crucible last won the day on February 10 2016

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About Crucible

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    Using this site to distract me from doing the things that I should otherwise be doing.
  1. Brunswick Star-nonpolice

    I believe that these badges are ocver a decade old. Newham now have 'Newham Law Enforcement', whose attire is shown in the attached picture. However, they do carry 'warrant cards' that contain the Brunswick star and could easily be confused with a real warrant card.
  2. BBC.Essex PC's shopping stolen during supermarket thief chase

    Oh the irony of if he got stuck on by PSD for accepting a gratuity!
  3. BBC.Woman wins undercover officer case against Met Police

    I am struggling to write a post that wouldn't be in contravention of the forum rules. But, hey, here's the polite version: She chose to drop her knickers. It's not as if the undercover officer raped her.
  4. Business cards

    The last thing that an experienced police officer would want is for a member of the public to know who they are, know where they are based and for them to know how to contact them. I haven't laughed so much in a long time (no offence). The best way to enable the public is to give them a reference number and allow them to call in so that a log can be updated and any further info added.
  5. Parks Law Enforcement (London)

    The Universities Act 1825 only applies to Cambridge and Oxford universities. Perhaps this was driven by Oxbridge snobbery? Interestingly enough, the constables are sworn in by the Chancellor or Vice Chancellor, rather than a Magistrate. Also, they retain civil liability for their own actions. So, if they do something wrong then they can be personally sued. This contrasts with a police force, where the force itself can find itself in the dock or is the one making out of court settlements.
  6. Batons - Who and How?

    ACPO report "Guidance on PCSOs (2007)":
  7. Batons - Who and How?

    No, I did not say that. The post that I made on the first page (as well as the second) states that they get their power to use reasonable force to effect their powers comes from the Police Reform Act. If a force trained PCSOs that have been designated with a power of detention in the use of batons and issued them with them then this would amount about to "lawful authority". Some forces issues Investigating Officers with them. There was even a report, if I recall correctly, from ACPO that acknowledged that batons could be issued. Not that they recommended it.
  8. Batons - Who and How?

    I did not claim that they were using the powers of a constable. They would be using the powers of a PCSO and their power to use force comes from the Police Reform Act. If someone has had their liberty taken then they have been imprisoned- whether that is an 'arrest' or a 'detention'. It would be lawful for a force to issue PCSOs with a baton, if they chose to. But none have.
  9. Of course the police have a duty to patrol. It's the police's role to keep the Queen's peace. However, they have a duty to patrol 'private property'. This concept is not a new one and was recognised in parks and open space legislation going back to the 1800s. Councils are the prosecuting authority for instigating proceedings for parks and open space bye-law infringements. Not the police. Who else's job is it to enforce byelaws? Councils do have a duty to keep parks safe and it is their responsibility to ensure that regulations and byelaws are adhered to.
  10. Batons - Who and How?

    PCSOs have a power of DETENTION and they CAN use force to effect that detention under the Police Reform Act. Designated 'Investigating Officers' do have a power of arrest, albeit where they further arrest a person already under arrest whom is in designated police station. There are some forces that issues this class of Police Staff with batons. What is a further twist is that some of these 'Officers' are actually retired Officers whom have returned as private contractors.
  11. Batons - Who and How?

    I would suggest that anyone that has been given a statutory power of arrest (over and above 'any person powers') has lawful authority to carry a baton. Whilst the Havering Parks Officers are being issued with batons as a result of being attested as constables, I believe that it may have been lawful to issue them with batons anyway. Article 19 of the the 1967 Act that they are being sworn in under creates a power of arrest for council officers that are authorised in writing to enforce byelaws. In such a scenario, they can arrest where someone's details cannot be ascertained and presented to a custody SGT. There would be no need for a constable to re-arrest. In the 1960s to the 1980s the Greater London Council gave certain Park Keepers 'warrant cards' and they did, on occasion, make arrests. I would suggest that any council officer being given written authorisation (a 'warrant card') under Article 19 would have lawful authority to carry a baton if the council authorised them to do so.
  12. Absolutely barmy idea! I doubt that the reductions would matter much to individual rate payers, but the impact on the force has the potential to undermine all of their efficiency gains. Yes, Herts has a reserve of £48m. But their annual budget is £172m. That's only just shy of 25% reserves in the bank.
  13. I don't think it's a question of police having access or getting permission to enter. I am sure that no council would deny them entry. It's just a case that it isn't the police's job to patrol parks. If councils want the police to proactively patrol parks then they need to pay them, as some do (e.g. Enfield Council).
  14. The difference between a private company employing 'enforcement agaents' and a local authority attesting their officers as constables is that a local authority has law enforcement responsibilities. The police do not hold a monopoly on that. I think that you are missing my point entirely when I have highlighted that a park is private property. The police have no duty to patrol parks, although they obviously have a duty to respond to reports of crime. The responsibility to keep parks safe belongs to the council and the responsibility to enforce and prosecute bye law offences is a council responsibility. Being attested as constables will allow them to do their jobs.
  15. Smell of cannabis from neighbours

    But it wouldn't necessaily be a 'complaint'. An MP might send a letter on behalf of a constituent in order to get clarification about how a matter is being treated or to extert pressure in order for a matter to receive more resourcing, but it wouldn't normally count as a 'complaint against police'.