[SWP1]

Last night i went into my local chippie because i was starving. i look out the the shop window to check my car. and this guy who was taking his mut out for a walk let the dog cock his leg up against my wheel and take a pee. all over my car. i banged the window and told him did he mind he smiled at me and then carried on walking. Has this guy commited any offence by allowing his dog do this.

Cheers
Phil

[Lord Vader]

Not really - an offence of criminal damage is only committed if someone intentionally or recklessly destroys or damages property belonging to another... you have the reckless aspect (allowing his dog to pee) but there's unlikely to be any damage.

I'm afraid you just have to put this one down to the general lack of respect that people have for others these days...

[David]

No Criminal Damage. Agree with Andy.

Sorry, but you won't be going to Acupulco courtesy of Yorkie Urine this year.

[CA5]

If the dog was on a lead. I would say yes criminal damage was technically commited against you.

This is along the similar lines of graffiti or throwing eggs at windows where the damage is costed at the cost of removal of the offending substance.It would be reasonable with the noxiousness of dog urine for you to go to a car wash and use a programme that includes a wheel scrub.

If the dog wasnt on a lead and therefore not in the control of its owner the above wouldnt apply.Local byelaws as to dog excreteing on the streets (excreting means number 1s and number 2s) or not being in proper control.

If you were to take civil action (torte) against the owner.You could claim the cost of cleaning, fuel to and from the car wash
and the cost of your time based on your salary/hourly rate to sort it out.

If you knew the individual this would be done by a properly worded letter of intent/ invoice for this then if ignored a reminder after 28 days.

Then if a reasonable period has passed say 3 months without response to both letters .Go to your local small claims court and start proceedings this will cost you £10.

If proceedings were found in your favour the court would offer damages to you and costs against the other party. If not paid bailiffs acting for the court would collect as the matter would be a lawful debt.

Or alternatively next time you see the dog and owner kick them both up the jacksy

Hope this helps.

[Sidious]

I don't agree that any damage has been caused. Although damage doesn't have to be permanent, anything that causes your car to be "harmed, made less useful, made less valuable or made unable to work" can be considered as damage, but it is hard to see how any of these fits.

There is a stated case where a youth deliberately spat on a police officer's coat, and at court was found not guilty on the basis that the spit could have easily been washed off. Whether or not you agree, you have to respect the ruling, and I think that there is a paralell to be drawn here.

Unless the dog's pee somhow damaged your paintwork, in reality it would easily wash off, and furthermore, there is nothing to stop you using the car in the meantime.

I certainly wouldn't be criming it if I was called to deal with this one.

Darren.

[David]

Quote

Unless the dog's pee somhow damaged your paintwork, in reality it would easily wash off, and furthermore, there is nothing to stop you using the car in the meantime.Darren.

That's exactly how I was thinking; though it's unlikely that dog's wee will damage paintwork unless the thing is a Great Dane and hasn't wee'd for a month.

I might be mistaken and stand to be corrected, but aren't the key words for Criminal Damage 'A person who without lawful excuse...'? (don't remember the rest word for word although I accept one could see 'reckless' as allowing a dog to wee on the car). This suggests that in allowing a dog to wreak havoc, it can't be considered Criminal Damage, though of course, offences are committed by the animal being out of control.

[Black Rat]

If anything this would be a civil matter.....

Although the burden of proof differs slightly between criminal and civil courts , the requirement to prove the facts in issue or question remains very much the same. Where the plaintiff (i.e. YOU), claims he was wronged in contract law or the law of TORT he must establish his action by evidence.

You would have to make a claim through the small claims court and submit a statement accordingly.

I would however suggest that you put this one down to experience and accept that the dog owner was a disrespectful individual whose manners leave something to be desired...

CPS I'm afraid would never in a million years run a case like this... I would be surprised if they did... :shock:

[CA5]

I am not saying I would crime the matter or that CPS would touch it.

However I would argue that dog urine is a noxious substance is left untreated on paintwork for long enough could cause damage and definitly remove a waxed finish/ cause staining to an alloy wheel that would cost money to restore and would equal an egg thrown at a window.

To return the vehicle to its original state just like a window it would require a clean which can be converted into a monetary amount. I would also argue it would cost more to remove dog urine from a waxed finish and an alloy then restore them to the previous condition than it would wash egg of a downstairs window with soapy water.

I beleive this is a very borderline thing we would never deal with or crime even in the mad world of positive crime recording 2003

I just happen to think letting a dog urinante on a car whilst on a lead is a reckless act .Surley the dog could be pulled away in no time therefore that part of the defintion is met.

The vehicle was changed from its original state to its detriment without the owners consent needing reparation.Be that only a wash , cleaning an alloy wheel or restoring a waxed finish of all which costs money. Surely even if it costs a penny to put your vehicle back in the state it was before the dog cocked its leg up as long as recklessness was shown constitutes damage.

On the circs initially given further clarification would be needed. The best way would be to ascertain that a waxed finish that cost £3.00 to apply would need re applying or staining removed from an alloy making sure it was covered in any account from the comp that this was visible after the dog had urinated.

In the circs given its not impossible to show damage was caused... discuss

Interesting point that has put me off my lunch.

[Paul6017]

....besides which its bloody rude.

We recently had a woman on our estate who would regularly take her dog for a walk on its lead round the estate and let it "perform both its duties" on peoples gardens, mine included. I had words with her which she completely dismissed saying i was complaining about nothing until i suggested that if she lets it do it again i'd be inclined to scoop the doings up in a bag and deposit them back on her doorstep! To which she huffed and puffed but stopped her pooch from depositing on my lawn.

Some people are just plain ignorant im afraid.

[Pulpculture]

Sorry many of you are wrong. It has been scientifically proven dogs pee denatures rubber. I would say 'technically' it has damaged your tyre but it wouldn't get anywhere in court so forget it.

Matthew

[Carl]

I would agree wholeheartedly with CA5.

Would we really bother ? Probably not, but it IS criminal damage.

Regards,

Carl