29 replies to this topic

[cfnbryn]

Most people know a Police Officer carries a warrant card as a form of identification, but I wondered whether a PCSO does so as well.
The reason I ask is that a PCSO can only exercise their duties and powers of their office whilst on duty and in uniform, which is different to a police officer. Yet to my understanding a Police Officer must show identification if asked including when in uniform... if this is also true of a PCSO then I would assume they carried some sort of police identification such as a warrant card.

Do PCSOs carry identification similar to a warrant card?

[police5670]

from what i know in NorPol (this goes for all staff by the way) they get issued an ID card which lets the MOP know that they are a member of NorPol and are authorised to carry out they duty that is named on the ID but that like i say is just for NorPol dont know about another force

[ojm947]

yes they do, it usually consists of a small black holder like the WC and an identification card with picture, name, police force, the CC signature, and a list of powers that the PCSO has. the card is normally fitted with a microchip so can open access doors at HQ etc

to go with it normally attached to the holder itself like the WC is the metal force crest, of which the PCSO is employed,

to the untranined eye it could be passed off as a warrant card, as many people dont even know what one looks like, but that wouldn't do the PCSO any favors

[cfnbryn]

Cool thank you.

[OnTheBeat]

We have a passport sized leather wallet with the force crest on the front, inside there is a flap that reveals our picture ID, and also in the wallet are the designation cards listing our powers signed by the CC.

[Giraffe]

In Surrey they normally just get the ID card, but some have a leather wallet with the surrey police badge on backwards (so when they open it the badge is never visible, but the badge flap can still be worn over a front pocket on display).

In terms of when they should show it, in reality they should always show it when asked except in extreme circumstances (eg if someones detained on the floor), although I'm not sure if there's any legal requirement for this.

[merpolcadetc3]

In Merpol the pcstos have an identical warrant card holder but instead of it saying police like regs and specials have it has police staff. any member of police staff has the same. cadets have an id card which is the same as a warrant card but says volunteer cadet and we have a clear plastic holder and lanyard which says knowlsey community volunteers(which is our area) and has the merpol logo

[pompeylad999]

As stated already, they carry an identification card rather than a warrant card.

[smt]

I've noticed that some designation cards advise that the powers listed thereon are only exercisable when the PCSO is on-duty and wearing the uniform "as stated below".

Is there any legal requirement for the latter statement? Because looking at it I would assume that if a PCSO were not wearing the approved headgear (or even a tie) their powers would be null and void. Surely I'm missing something?

N.B. I know that the uniform requirement doesn't apply to warranted constables.

[rosco]

I've noticed that some designation cards advise that the powers listed thereon are only exercisable when the PCSO is on-duty and wearing the uniform "as stated below".

Is there any legal requirement for the latter statement? Because looking at it I would assume that if a PCSO were not wearing the approved headgear (or even a tie) their powers would be null and void. Surely I'm missing something?

N.B. I know that the uniform requirement doesn't apply to warranted constables.

For police officers, some police powers can only be used when you are in uniform such as:
- Administering a breath test
- Issuing a FPN
- Obliging a motor-vehicle to stop

However you only need to wear enough uniform to be recognisable as a police officer (so lack of tie, hat etc. would not be a bar) - so I was told in training.

I would thus imagine that something similar would be the case for PCSOs and their powers.

[BlueBand]

Pretty sure Roscoe is correct, aslong as your identifiable as a PCSO, powers are there.

[Nim]

You have to be in uniform and in your county of work for your PCSO powers to apply.

[smt]

You have to be in uniform and in your county of work for your PCSO powers to apply.

I know that but if you look closely at some designation cards it implies that the powers are only available if the officer is wearing full uniform.

[BlueBand]

Mine states that I have my powers "when on duty". Says nothing about being in uniform.

[Giraffe]

Mine states that I have my powers "when on duty". Says nothing about being in uniform.

Legally though you do need to be in uniform to exercise your powers, as others have said. It would defeat the object of PCSOs if they weren't visible to the public.

[BlueBand]

Seems logical

Doesn't state what uniform exactly, would of thought it's more the point that you are identifiable as a PCSO.

[R_Brotheridge]

i think you'll find that "on duty" in policy and legislation would also require you to be in the approved uniform.

[MerseyLLB]

Closest thing we have in law for a 'definition' of uniform is Wallwork v Giles 1970 (or something like that).

Basically: whether theofficer was in uniform at the time is a matter of fact for a court to decide on a case by case basis. What specifically stands as uniform isn't clear but if the officer can be readily identified from his manner of dress then the threshold has probably been met

I would suggest that would be the most fitting authority to apply to the PCSO question.

[Stigy]

I'm an Accredited Person, and we have to be in uniform to exercise any accredited powers. It states this on our "powers cards" which I assume are much the same as designation cards?

Certain things are listed as optional where uniform is concerned, such a a hat.

I'm accredited under the Railway Safety Accreditation Scheme and work for a train operating company though, and as such, we obviously have our other railway powers to fall back on, which we can use in plain clothes and not necessarily on duty either, such as reporting for offences under byelaws and other legislation.

[BlueBand]

Different kettle of fish I would of thought Stigy.

[Stigy]

Different kettle of fish I would of thought Stigy.

I'm not sure it is though. We are accredited by the BTP and therefore our powers are issued by them and signed off by the Chief Constable, much the same i'd imagine, as a PCSO (Obviously it would be commissioner as opposed to CC in the Met though), given our police powers and responsibilities are much the same.

[BlueBand]

Interesting point.

[Autoblue]

I'm not sure it is though. We are accredited by the BTP and therefore our powers are issued by them and signed off by the Chief Constable, much the same i'd imagine, as a PCSO (Obviously it would be commissioner as opposed to CC in the Met though), given our police powers and responsibilities are much the same.

Out of interest, do you have to be in uniform (as a railway employee/TOC employee) to exercise bylaw powers?

[MerseyLLB]

Out of interest, do you have to be in uniform (as a railway employee/TOC employee) to exercise bylaw powers?

No.

[Stigy]

Out of interest, do you have to be in uniform (as a railway employee/TOC employee) to exercise bylaw powers?

Nope, as I said

I'm an Accredited Person, and we have to be in uniform to exercise any accredited powers. It states this on our "powers cards" which I assume are much the same as designation cards?

Certain things are listed as optional where uniform is concerned, such a a hat.

I'm accredited under the Railway Safety Accreditation Scheme and work for a train operating company though, and as such, we obviously have our other railway powers to fall back on, which we can use in plain clothes and not necessarily on duty either, such as reporting for offences under byelaws and other legislation.