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#26 Mr Unknown

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 11:26 AM

Mr Unknown you are 100% correct. Thats why we get such angry customers who, when told they are arrested for a breach of the peace invariably say "I've not done nothin'" (usually after swearing at us and refusing to desist).



I've had to threaten someone with it before, guy had been thumped in a pub, we took him to an empty room upstairs to find out what had happened, and he swore at us for "###### wasting his time" and telling us to "######" of. He didn't want to make a complaint, and it was only the fact a) we had just started the shift and it looked like it was going to be a busy one b) his girlfriend assured us he was getting in a taxi & going home and c) he really should have had a visit to A&E which would have tied us up that he wasn't arrested!

Edit:- Ok, looks like I've come across the swearing filter - apparently I never put enough ** in, so you'll just have to guess!

Edited by Mr Unknown, 20 May 2008 - 11:28 AM.


#27 matt_w

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 11:30 AM

would this be a better charge.

uniforms s2&3
it is an offence for any person not serving in her majesty's forces to wear without her majesty's permission the uniform of any of those forces, or any dress having the appearence, or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of such a uniform.

there is more to this act and if required can ellaborate there is also an exemption for stage plays in properly authorised places for public performances, music halls etc

but i do not feel this excemption would apply to a stripper in a pub or getting to the venue

So they will probably charge him with the above rather than anything else in that case then.

I guess that airsofters will have to take notice of similar cases then.

#28 abitinga

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 11:34 AM

airsofters ???

#29 matt_w

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 12:40 PM

airsofters ???

They often dress up at the weekend in HM's uniforms and I presume they do not have her permission to do so.

Google the term if you like.

#30 abitinga

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:09 PM

They often dress up at the weekend in HM's uniforms and I presume they do not have her permission to do so.

Google the term if you like.


i dont think combats alone would sufice, its a bit like police uniform, anyone can wear white shirt and trousers but when they add things that make them look like an officer they commit an offence. in the photo the stripper is wearing a military cap badge and a military police insignia therefore the offence is complete.

#31 matt_w

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:17 PM

i dont think combats alone would sufice, its a bit like police uniform, anyone can wear white shirt and trousers but when they add things that make them look like an officer they commit an offence. in the photo the stripper is wearing a military cap badge and a military police insignia therefore the offence is complete.

The legislation sounds stricter than impersonating a police officer because it does not appear to require an intention to deceive and it does talk about 'dress having the appearance of'.

ANyway it's academic because we are talking about an arrest for BoP anyway.

#32 Morse

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 02:48 PM

From reading the thread it just appears to be a person entering a pub dressed a soldier. I know the law can be flexible but not that flexible. There is insufficient information. Was there a riotous or disorderly element and to the alarm, annoyance or disturbance or the people within.

There is no mention of that so no crime.

#33 matt_w

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 02:50 PM

From reading the thread it just appears to be a person entering a pub dressed a soldier. I know the law can be flexible but not that flexible. There is insufficient information. Was there a riotous or disorderly element and to the alarm, annoyance or disturbance or the people within.

There is no mention of that so no crime.

No I think that the person was about to walk into the pub and take off his clothes for money.

#34 Hawk

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 02:51 PM

From reading the thread it just appears to be a person entering a pub dressed a soldier. I know the law can be flexible but not that flexible. There is insufficient information. Was there a riotous or disorderly element and to the alarm, annoyance or disturbance or the people within.

There is no mention of that so no crime.


And from reading the news article concerned it makes no mention of that either. I'm not sure what grounds for a breach there were but as usual we don't get the full story..

#35 matt_w

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 12:21 PM

And from reading the news article concerned it makes no mention of that either. I'm not sure what grounds for a breach there were but as usual we don't get the full story..

There is a chance I suppose that the man was annoyed at being stopped (again) and lost his temper. That would do it.

#36 Hawk

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 12:37 PM

There is a chance I suppose that the man was annoyed at being stopped (again) and lost his temper. That would do it.



Ah yes I didn't think of that

#37 Darkness

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:20 PM

i dont think combats alone would sufice, its a bit like police uniform, anyone can wear white shirt and trousers but when they add things that make them look like an officer they commit an offence. in the photo the stripper is wearing a military cap badge and a military police insignia therefore the offence is complete.


In the picture it's not a monkey cap badge, nor does he seem to have a red MP badge or a TRF. Seems like the guy is just someone who likes walting it up...

#38 Mr Unknown

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:41 PM

I think this one will have to wait until he's up in court to find out the exact reason for the breach, anyone from Grampian able to keep us up to date (obviously when it is public information!)

#39 Northern Lights

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 06:04 PM

They often dress up at the weekend in HM's uniforms and I presume they do not have her permission to do so.

Google the term if you like.



There are loads of people who dress up in military style clothing, but there must be an intention to impersonate current military personnel. (with the exception of stage plays etc)

Section 3 of the Uniforms Act 1894

#40 abitinga

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 05:03 PM

In the picture it's not a monkey cap badge, nor does he seem to have a red MP badge or a TRF. Seems like the guy is just someone who likes walting it up...



for the offence it does not have to be a monkey cap badge any one will do and has a nice military police sign across his chest on military clothing there is more than enough there to give the impression of someone in the armed forces especially to someone with little or no knowledge.

like said before the uniform of any of those forces or any dress having the appearance, or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of any such uniform

there are probably plenty of people who commit this offence on a regular basis however common sense and judgement as ususl probably prevails and the whole thing is taken into account and probably the odd blind eye turned :prone:

Edited by abitinga, 23 May 2008 - 05:09 PM.


#41 Muse2k8

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:12 PM

would this be a better charge.

uniforms s2&3
it is an offence for any person not serving in her majesty's forces to wear without her majesty's permission the uniform of any of those forces, or any dress having the appearence, or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of such a uniform.

there is more to this act and if required can ellaborate there is also an exemption for stage plays in properly authorised places for public performances, music halls etc

but i do not feel this excemption would apply to a stripper in a pub or getting to the venue


What about strippers in Police Uniform? They seem to get away with it. Or firefighter strippers?

I believe someone probably felt alarmed at him carrying what appeared to be an offensive weapon into a pub and called the police. Offence complete.

#42 Kingfisher

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:23 PM

"you see a man dressed as a soldier entering a pub.

How would one justify an arrest for BoP?"


If, and I do say "if", there had been an altercation between a man dressed as a military person and on duty officers, when the afore said man was originally approached, then there may be grounds for a BoP. Then it may be that a charge of resisting arrest may also follow.

Regards

Malky from Aberdeen/shire, as Grampian as a region does not now exist.

#43 abitinga

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:29 PM

What about strippers in Police Uniform? They seem to get away with it. Or firefighter strippers?

I believe someone probably felt alarmed at him carrying what appeared to be an offensive weapon into a pub and called the police. Offence complete.



firstly there is no offence of impersonating a firefighter secondly the law is very similar for police and like i said earlier yes many people commit this offence but common sense and discretion are normally used and a blind eye turned otherwise yes they would be commiting an offence and we would have cells full of strippers every weekend :prone:
however most strippers that i have come across you can normally tell are not real police but (and i wait to be corrected here) this guy from memory has gone the whole hog on more than one occasion in the past

even when in military uniform he still puts something on which says police, does he have some form of fixation???

#44 minime33

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 07:54 PM

I seen this happen and a man entered a club wearing full combats with correct flashes and stable belts. Though he might be a new recruit so I went over to offer some words of advice turns out he was on a halloween party which made me quite anger. Next day decided to look up and see if it was an offence and this is what I found.

Uniforms Act 1894.
2. Military uniforms not to be worn without authority.— (1) It shall not be lawful for any person not serving in Her Majesty’s Military Forces to wear without Her Majesty’s permission the uniform of any of those forces, or any dress having the appearance or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of any such uniform: Provided that this enactment shall not prevent . . . . . . F1 any persons from wearing any uniform or dress in the course of a stage play performed in a place duly licensed or authorised for the public performance of stage plays, or in the course of a music hall or circus performance, or in the course of any bona fide military representation.
(2) If any person contravenes this section he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F2 level 3 on the standard scale].

F1 Words repealed by Statute Law Revision Act 1908 (c. 49)
F2 Words substituted by virtue of (E.W.) Criminal Justice Act 1982 (c. 48, SIF 39:1), ss. 38, 46 and (S.) Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1975 (c. 21, SIF 39:1), ss. 289F, 289G and (N.I.) S.I. 1984/703 (N.I. 3), arts. 5, 6

http://www.statutela...;filesize=10528

Seems to cover the entire of the UK also has section on bringing contempt on the uniform.

#45 Lucozade

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 01:12 PM

as Grampian as a region does not now exist.


Lucky everyone else meant 'Grampian' as a force boundary.

#46 Kingfisher

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 07:23 PM

Lucky everyone else meant 'Grampian' as a force boundary

Which was ???? before Aberdeen/shire became Grampian, which then became Aberdeen/shire again!! :prone:


Regards

Malky

#47 Lucozade

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 08:55 PM

Really very off topic; correct me if i'm wrong but the force is called Grampian. In police terms anything policed by Grampian is in the Grampian force boundary... i'll endeavour to call it Aberdeenshire from now on, i'm lying i'll still call it Grampian.

#48 Mr Unknown

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 11:28 AM

Lucky everyone else meant 'Grampian' as a force boundary.


Yeah, I meant anyone from the Grampian police area as it's more likely to be in their local news, just like if I was asking about something in Hawick I'd have said Lothian & Borders and not Scottish Borders.

#49 Hawk

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 11:35 AM

oh dear...

#50 GMA79

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Posted 05 July 2008 - 07:05 PM

edit: I note that has already been mentioned in a thread in the news forum.

http://www.pressandj...16683?UserKey=0

‘Police’ stripper accused of using flashing light on car
Man on bail after denying charges
By Jamie Buchan
Published: 01/07/2008

A STRIPPER who dresses as a police officer for his stage act appeared in court yesterday accused of using a flashing light on his car to pull over motorists.

Stuart Kennedy was arrested by the real police at the weekend and spent two nights in a cell.

The 25-year-old was charged with having a flashing beacon installed in the vehicle he was driving and using it to stop driver James Buchan in Meethill Road, Peterhead, on Saturday night.

He faces an alternative charge of conducting himself in a disorderly manner, stopping Mr Buchan and speaking into a hand-held microphone in his car, causing a breach of the peace.

Kennedy, of Flat E, 38 Don Street, Aberdeen, has also been charged with a similar alleged offence on the A90 Aberdeen-Peterhead road, near Blackdog. He is alleged to have stopped motorist Jamie Lawrie using a flashing light in his car.

An alternative charge alleges Kennedy used the light to portray his vehicle as an unmarked police car, committing a breach of the peace.

It is also alleged Kennedy had with him a police-style outfit and accessories without “a satisfactory explanation”.

According to court papers, he was in possession of black trousers, white shirt with black epaulettes, black tie, black body armour vest, police hat, utility belt, two batons, handcuffs and a radio with microphone attachment.

Kennedy denied all five charges against him at yesterday’s brief hearing at Peterhead Sheriff Court. He was freed on bail and the case will call again later this year.

As part of his bail conditions, he was banned from driving to and from venues wearing his police uniform.

He was also ordered not to attach any strobe or flashing lights to any vehicle he uses.

Kennedy was represented by Peterhead solicitor John Adam during yesterday’s appearance before Sheriff James Hendry.


Edited by g_attrill, 05 July 2008 - 07:26 PM.





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