hi guys
i would appreciate your views on a personal situation i have at the moment regards my 14 year old lad, i dont want to go into too much detail on here for obvious reasons but if anyone would like to email me then feel free.
i had to take my lad to one of the local stations at the weekend to answer an allegation of criminal damage (a door window was chipped by a stone). obviously i had to go with him. I have never felt so intimidated in my life, talk about innocent until proven guilty more like the other way around. it was horrible. i came out of there asking myself did i really want to join the force if this is the way we have to treat people when they are there voluntarily to answer some questions regarding a broken window. no one actually saw anyone do or throw anything, no one knows if a stone actually broke the window but he was treated more like a common criminal!! Now we have to wait until next week to see if her supervisor thinks the matter should be taken to court!!. What the hell is going on!!!!! no wonder the police never have any money. while i agree if a case of criminal damage has occured then the owners have the right to have it investigated but why didnt they just go out and ask him if he had done it they know him (ex girlfriend parents), why all this, 3 hours in total of police time, 6 tapes used for 20 minutes of interview i dont know how much paperwork which all uses the police time. I dont know maybe its just me but the attitude of the person interviewing was intimidatiing, accusing and i feel totally uneccessary for a 14 year old to witness, i have only just convinced him that its a good thing me joining the specials because of all the bad press and in the words of Andy one of our trainers "if they wear a hoody they are gulity" (patronising of course, hand in the air)!!! now hes totally against it.
any thoughts would be appreciated thanks
your views
Started by
alfagirl
, Apr 09 2007 12:42 PM
9 replies to this topic
#2
CalJake
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Posted 09 April 2007 - 02:19 PM
Don't let the attitude of one pratt put you off, look at all the people we've met so far, all have been top notch and very positive. It would be crazy if this went any further, no witnesses and no evidence suggest it is very unlikely. Dont get disheartened 
#3
Posted 09 April 2007 - 10:38 PM
Well, the question that you have to ask is this, where do you draw the line? Does a slight chip in a window mean that we should forego the process and it not be a criminal offence? Perhaps a crack? How far, before we start allowing all broken windows to be let off. It may seem that the police are treating your son as guilty, however, it is their job to prove that he is. The maxim that a person is innocent until proven guilty is something that the courts adopt. The police use interviews, which may give you the opinion that they believe him to be guilty, to determine the scope and actions of that day in question. Those questions may sound like guilt is already known, but it isn't, it's based on witness statements, based on all sorts, so I wouldn't take it too personally, it's a part of the job.
As for consequences, well, your son, if he did chip a window, did commit an offence of criminal damage. Perhaps the officer in question was trying to demonstrate the gravity of any criminal offence and how the police will treat them all, starting from the ground up. It's a theory that if you clamp down on smaller offences, it has an impact on the larger crimes. I think they trialled this in New York and called it a broken windows policy, ironically! lol
The oath that constables have to take before taking office states that they will prevent all offences against people and property and that they discharge all the duties faithfull, according to law. That means, they have to treat all crimes the same, regardless of the damage caused.
Although you came to the interview voluntarily, it is an interview nonetheless. You still have the option of leaving the interview at anytime. That being said, don't get disheartened!
Just one final thing though, did the officer say that your son was witnessed to have committed the crime or was he interviewed only as a witness?
Sorry, I've just given your post a second reading again:
"Why don't they just go and ask him"
Probably because there is a process and if a complaint has been made, then the police have an obligation to investigate it properly, which will mean bringing in witnesses, statements and interviewing possible suspects if there is enough evidence. It's just one of those things, procedure has to be followed regardless of the severity of the crime, whether it is for theft or murder.
As for consequences, well, your son, if he did chip a window, did commit an offence of criminal damage. Perhaps the officer in question was trying to demonstrate the gravity of any criminal offence and how the police will treat them all, starting from the ground up. It's a theory that if you clamp down on smaller offences, it has an impact on the larger crimes. I think they trialled this in New York and called it a broken windows policy, ironically! lol
The oath that constables have to take before taking office states that they will prevent all offences against people and property and that they discharge all the duties faithfull, according to law. That means, they have to treat all crimes the same, regardless of the damage caused.
Although you came to the interview voluntarily, it is an interview nonetheless. You still have the option of leaving the interview at anytime. That being said, don't get disheartened!
Just one final thing though, did the officer say that your son was witnessed to have committed the crime or was he interviewed only as a witness?
Sorry, I've just given your post a second reading again:
"Why don't they just go and ask him"
Probably because there is a process and if a complaint has been made, then the police have an obligation to investigate it properly, which will mean bringing in witnesses, statements and interviewing possible suspects if there is enough evidence. It's just one of those things, procedure has to be followed regardless of the severity of the crime, whether it is for theft or murder.
#4
Posted 09 April 2007 - 10:50 PM
I don't know you so don't take this personally. You've come on here asking questions of people who have dealt with situations such as the one that you describe and this is my take on it.
You mention an allegation so the Police have become involved because somebody has said that he did it. When investigating a complaint, the Police can't just ask nicely if it's true and then end the interview as soon as there is a denial. If we took everybody at face value then we'd never solve anything - and that applies to 14 year olds as well as everybody else. So of course it's intimidating, but that's how we get people to admit it!! What did you expect?
Having delivered wayward Johnny back home, I've often had to put up with the outraged parent asking if I haven't got anything better to do. I usually interpret that as them covering for both their kids and their own shortcomings to be honest. Nobody wants to see their kids go through the mill with the Police, but the way to avoid that is not beat the Police up for doing it, rather it's to encourage your kids not to keep bad company and to keep tabs on their whereabouts and in that way try and avoid your kids getting implicated in committing offences. Basically, some parents take exception to the way their kid has been dealt with usually because making out that somebody else is at fault is easier than dealing with the reality, i.e. that the blame lies closer to home.
You asked, so there you go. Like I said though, don't take it personally.
You mention an allegation so the Police have become involved because somebody has said that he did it. When investigating a complaint, the Police can't just ask nicely if it's true and then end the interview as soon as there is a denial. If we took everybody at face value then we'd never solve anything - and that applies to 14 year olds as well as everybody else. So of course it's intimidating, but that's how we get people to admit it!! What did you expect?
Having delivered wayward Johnny back home, I've often had to put up with the outraged parent asking if I haven't got anything better to do. I usually interpret that as them covering for both their kids and their own shortcomings to be honest. Nobody wants to see their kids go through the mill with the Police, but the way to avoid that is not beat the Police up for doing it, rather it's to encourage your kids not to keep bad company and to keep tabs on their whereabouts and in that way try and avoid your kids getting implicated in committing offences. Basically, some parents take exception to the way their kid has been dealt with usually because making out that somebody else is at fault is easier than dealing with the reality, i.e. that the blame lies closer to home.
You asked, so there you go. Like I said though, don't take it personally.
#5
alfagirl
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Posted 10 April 2007 - 09:45 AM
well to be fair, i have taken offence!!I don't know you so don't take this personally. You've come on here asking questions of people who have dealt with situations such as the one that you describe and this is my take on it.
You mention an allegation so the Police have become involved because somebody has said that he did it. When investigating a complaint, the Police can't just ask nicely if it's true and then end the interview as soon as there is a denial. If we took everybody at face value then we'd never solve anything - and that applies to 14 year olds as well as everybody else. So of course it's intimidating, but that's how we get people to admit it!! What did you expect?
Having delivered wayward Johnny back home, I've often had to put up with the outraged parent asking if I haven't got anything better to do. I usually interpret that as them covering for both their kids and their own shortcomings to be honest. Nobody wants to see their kids go through the mill with the Police, but the way to avoid that is not beat the Police up for doing it, rather it's to encourage your kids not to keep bad company and to keep tabs on their whereabouts and in that way try and avoid your kids getting implicated in committing offences. Basically, some parents take exception to the way their kid has been dealt with usually because making out that somebody else is at fault is easier than dealing with the reality, i.e. that the blame lies closer to home.
You asked, so there you go. Like I said though, don't take it personally.
i feel you have pre judged me and my son (which is my whole point) i do know where my son is when he is out and in fact he was getting off the school bus and walking home or should i collect him so he doesnt walk the streets alone in case anything happens and he happens to be in the area. i didnt mean for the police to go and ask him i meant the girls parents. as for me covering up for my son you have no right to say, you are implying that i would lie for him, if he has done something wrong he damn well knows the consequences. and i dont beleive I have too many shortcomings thanks very much! I have no problem with police investigating broken windows if this has been done with the intent to cause damge to someones property and there is a case to answer no matter what age the suspect is.
however there were no witnesses, we dont even know when the window was broken and have no photo evidence that it was caused by a stone, how do we know it wasnt caused by a car throwing a stone up, or the council cutting the grass with a strimmer. I dont have a problem with him being questioned either it was the manner, i am well aware that police have interview tactics to get people to admit the offence im not stupid, but how far do you push it, on this occasion i feel it went too far. Maybe ive joined the wrong proffession if this is peoples attitude.
#6
Posted 10 April 2007 - 10:25 AM
Alfa,
I understand your feelings as a parent. Sometimes things are not handled in the best way because officers are human or forget that often the person they are dealing with has never dealt with the police before.
If you really think it went too far then consider making a complaint. Whopper is correct in that many of the young people you will meet and ask about offences will deny doing anything, their parents will then back them, usually along the lines of "My child would never do such a thing!"
There may be no evidence that your son did it, but as long as there is evidence of a crime it's still got to be investigated.
It may well be that your son wouldn't and didn't do anything, but unfortunately the allegation has been made and has to be investigated. There is a process that has to be followed in doing this and it is for your son's protection as well as to ensure the investigation is done properly. If you feel that it wasn't done correctly, ask to talk to the team sergeant about it.
Only thing to consider is if this is the station you will be working at then maybe don't stir things up too much with your future colleagues!
Don't give up on your application though, but use this experience to make you a better officer when you get in.
I understand your feelings as a parent. Sometimes things are not handled in the best way because officers are human or forget that often the person they are dealing with has never dealt with the police before.
If you really think it went too far then consider making a complaint. Whopper is correct in that many of the young people you will meet and ask about offences will deny doing anything, their parents will then back them, usually along the lines of "My child would never do such a thing!"
There may be no evidence that your son did it, but as long as there is evidence of a crime it's still got to be investigated.
It may well be that your son wouldn't and didn't do anything, but unfortunately the allegation has been made and has to be investigated. There is a process that has to be followed in doing this and it is for your son's protection as well as to ensure the investigation is done properly. If you feel that it wasn't done correctly, ask to talk to the team sergeant about it.
Only thing to consider is if this is the station you will be working at then maybe don't stir things up too much with your future colleagues!
Don't give up on your application though, but use this experience to make you a better officer when you get in.
#7
Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:39 AM
well to be fair, i have taken offence!!
Oh well, there was always that risk ......
#8
Jo_22
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Posted 10 April 2007 - 12:55 PM
their parents will then back them, usually along the lines of "My child would never do such a thing!"
Not all parents are like that though, should think if when I was that age the police turned up at my door I would have got somewhat of an earbashing.
.....lets keep hope alive and chose to believe that not all parents are totaly naive when it comes to their kids.
#9
Posted 10 April 2007 - 01:30 PM
Whilst I agree with Jo_22 in that our parents would have given us an earbashing I must agree with Mike_Tango in that more and more, parents think the police are the enemy and their children are the victims of police injustice/brutality etc etc.
I know for a fact that if I were arrested or even so much as brought back home by the police, I could expect the hiding of my life. Knowing that that would be the consequences of bad behaviour always meant I was kept in check and didn't stray from the herd. But I've seen parents who could care less what their kids are doing and when they are caught, then they turn their anger on the police rather than punish their child.
However, I'm not saying that alfagirl is in anyway that person, I think, some parts of society have come to believe that their children are angelic and do no wrong, and believe police are lying through their teeth when we say your child was caught doing this that or the other.
I know for a fact that if I were arrested or even so much as brought back home by the police, I could expect the hiding of my life. Knowing that that would be the consequences of bad behaviour always meant I was kept in check and didn't stray from the herd. But I've seen parents who could care less what their kids are doing and when they are caught, then they turn their anger on the police rather than punish their child.
However, I'm not saying that alfagirl is in anyway that person, I think, some parts of society have come to believe that their children are angelic and do no wrong, and believe police are lying through their teeth when we say your child was caught doing this that or the other.
#10
alfagirl
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Posted 10 April 2007 - 01:51 PM
i do agree with some of you (well except one!!!!). we had a real problem last year with an older lad bullying my son, to the extent of punching him in the face, standing outside our house and making threats against our family, threatening phone calls (mm think it might be time to move, Lincolnshire doesnt seem that nice anymore) and the police were fantastic in dealing with this, this lad is a nasty peice of work and the old excuse of ADHD came up which seems to be the excuse of the century which must really annoy the hell out of the poor parents who are actually dealing with kids with ADHD, and trying to help their kids. i also knew if id of got in trouble as a kid the consequences would have been horrible for me and i think thats where society has gone a bit mad. No punishment in schools, whats that about it never did us any harm, no competition on sports days everyones a winner!! whats wrong with a good bit of old fashioned sportsmanship and rivalry. I do feel some police and i emphasise the SOME police have probably just about had enough of the way things are and maybe have lost sight abit. It all seems about money and figures and paperwork. This is one reason i wanted to join up because i want to show people that not all of the force are the same and some of us have got some compassion and understanding of situations, and if i can even improve one persons view on the police then i have achieved my goal
thanks for all your comments much appreciated.
thanks for all your comments much appreciated.
