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Drunk in charge of a pedal bike?


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#1 Lee

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:08 PM

is it illegal to be drunk in charge of a pedal bike? and do the normal rules count as if you where stopped and brethalised in charge of a motor vehicle ?

#2 Nut

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:18 PM

is it illegal to be drunk in charge of a pedal bike? and do the normal rules count as if you where stopped and brethalised in charge of a motor vehicle ?

Yep, still an offence.

Not sure how the rules go tho.

#3 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 08:31 AM

The Licensing Act 1872 makes it an offence to be drunk in charge of a bicycle (or any other vehicle or carriage) on a highway or in a public place.

:whistle:

Hope this helps!

#4 stu0x

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 11:02 AM

is it illegal to be drunk in charge of a pedal bike?

yes

and do the normal rules count as if you where stopped and brethalised in charge of a motor vehicle ?

No, s5 RTA is for mechanically propelled vehicles. Think of it more as "riding whilst unfit". Words of advice are usually the way forward, unless the person is causing a significant danger to himself or others.

#5 Ricky Diamond

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:10 PM

Isnt there 'drunk in charge of a horse' too ??? :whistle:

#6 ktang

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 04:14 PM

I would have thought that you could FPN for riding whilst unfit, or if they're seriously drunk, then arrest to prevent physical injury... dah de dah dah that ID COP PLAN thing.

(I must admit that I don't really know the answer, this is just what I think)

#7 Ricky Diamond

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 05:22 PM

I would have thought that you could FPN for riding whilst unfit, or if they're seriously drunk, then arrest to prevent physical injury... dah de dah dah that ID COP PLAN thing.

(I must admit that I don't really know the answer, this is just what I think)


Well, it would just be D+D i would of thought if he was that bad on the bike must be pretty wasted. Warn him to push bike, if he got back on i guess the COPPLAN would apply on protect the person or others. But then you can take the person home and give them an FPN instead.
Book the bike into property store for collection.

#8 Another Constable

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 12:36 AM

D+D?

How is riding a bike disorderly behaviour?

There is a specific offence of drunk in charge of a bicycle, and that is what you should use, arresting only if S24 conditions permit.

And if they are drunk, you can't take them home and issue a PND. PND's cannot be issued to someone who is drunk (despite this happening on a daily basis in my force - something that the CPS are now getting on top of thankfully). To issue a PND you would have to arrest them, then it would be issued in the morning when they are sober as a means of disposal from custody.

#9 JS

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:27 AM

There is a specific offence of being drunk whilst riding a pedal cycle under s30 RTA 1988 - this should be prefered to any ancient offence such as the 1872 Licencing Act.

It is not an offence that an FPN or PND can be issued for. I don't know where D&D came from though .... I know it is an easy method of case disposal but that is stretching it somewhat !

James

From NCALT:

Section 30 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991, provides the offence of cycling on a road or public place whilst under the influence of drink or drugs. It states:
30(1) A person who, when riding a cycle on a road or other public place, is unfit to ride through drink or drugs (that is to say, is under the influence of drink or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the cycle) is guilty of an offence.

NOTES

(i) The evidence of the extent to which a person is affected must be measured by means other than the provision of a specimen of breath, blood or urine, as there is no power to require such a specimen in these circumstances. However, if such a specimen was offered, it is probable that the evidence obtained by analysis of the specimen would be admissible.
(ii) In Scotland a constable may arrest without warrant a person committing an offence.
(iii) In England and Wales a constable may only arrest without warrant in accordance with the powers of arrest set out in section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. In such an instance, that power might be exercised where a satisfactory address has not been furnished, or the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that arrest is necessary to prevent such a person causing physical injury to himself or any other person (see also other conditions in s24 of PACE).
(iv) The absence of a specific power of arrest in England and Wales affects the ability of the police to present any form of medical evidence of the accused's condition.
(v) There is no offence of 'being in charge' of a cycle under the Road Traffic Acts, but such conduct may well be an offence of drunk in charge of a carriage under section 12 of the Licensing Act 1872. A bicycle or tricycle is a carriage for the purpose of that section.



#10 TA-TL-TBreak

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 02:27 PM

Isnt it even just an offence be drunk on the highway? I thought somewhere there is an act that if a person is drunk and just on the road (not even on a bike) that is an offence! Never needed to think about that one as always use other things but does it exist?

#11 Another Constable

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 03:05 PM

Isnt it even just an offence be drunk on the highway? I thought somewhere there is an act that if a person is drunk and just on the road (not even on a bike) that is an offence! Never needed to think about that one as always use other things but does it exist?


Yes, but it's drunk and incapable... i.e. unable to stand/walk etc. Just being slightly off your head doesn't count :whistle:

#12 Lee

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 03:07 PM

im asking this because im doing a sponsored bike ride from manchester to blackpool for christies cancer research and was thinking of stopping off at a few pubs on the 60 mile ride back. One of my friends said it was illegal to drink and ride but i wasnt sure.

#13 Harper

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:07 PM

im asking this because im doing a sponsored bike ride from manchester to blackpool for christies cancer research and was thinking of stopping off at a few pubs on the 60 mile ride back. One of my friends said it was illegal to drink and ride but i wasnt sure.


I think (I'm not a special constable, so don't take my word for it!) that it is illegal to drink and ride in the same respect as it is to drink and drive, i.e. it only becomes illegal if you have to much and become a danger to yourself or others. It is worth noting though, that when you drink after excersise, when you are dehydrated/tired you get drunk quite considerably faster, so what you might find has little effect on you on a friday night out may effect you quite considerably whilst cycling. Just something to bare in mind :whistle:
Personally I would not recomend cycling after drinking anything, just as I wouldn't recomend driving after drinking anything, even if you feel fine/are below the limit. But ultimataly its up to you, so long as you don't start posing a danger to people (remember that a drunk cyclist could cause a car to swerve and hit someone, they don't have to be directly involved in the collision). As I said before, I'm not in the police service, so check out everything I have said before you do anything!
Oh, and good luck with the ride!

Edited by Harper, 01 May 2006 - 04:08 PM.


#14 SBG

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 11:09 PM

Just bringing this back up - how do you prove that they are drunk - if they provided a breath sample at the side of the road and failed it would that be enough?

#15 oddbod

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 12:06 PM

how do you prove that they are drunk - if they provided a breath sample at the side of the road and failed it would that be enough?


His eyes were glazed, he was unsteady on his feet , his speech was slurred and I could smell intoxicating liquor on his breath.
He was drunk......:unsure:

Is there a power to demand a sample of breath at the roadside?

#16 Random~name

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 12:36 PM

im asking this because im doing a sponsored bike ride from manchester to blackpool for christies cancer research and was thinking of stopping off at a few pubs on the 60 mile ride back. One of my friends said it was illegal to drink and ride but i wasnt sure.


Not an offence.

Loads of cyclists out on countryside bike rides stop off at pubs and have a drink. Much like drivers of cars.

The offence comes into play when you are at a stage where because of intoxication you are unable to cycle safely to your own benefit and other road users or pedestrians. So once you start swerving around the road then you would be comitting the offence.

#17 Obsidian_Eclipse

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 01:36 PM

His eyes were glazed, he was unsteady on his feet , his speech was slurred and I could smell intoxicating liquor on his breath.
He was drunk......:unsure:

Is there a power to demand a sample of breath at the roadside?


It might not go anywhere legally (ie no prosecution) but it might save their life, however police officers dont actually need a specimen of breath do we? Given we have alot of experience dealing with drunk persons then professional judgement alone should suffice. I wouldnt bother with a breath test personally (unless there is a history of similar issues which might change my judgement).

Edited by Obsidian_Eclipse, 06 June 2010 - 01:36 PM.


#18 SkinSte

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 01:54 PM

Just bringing this back up - how do you prove that they are drunk - if they provided a breath sample at the side of the road and failed it would that be enough?


I would go with what oddbod says; "He was drunk". You have no power to request a breath test as that's only for motor vehicles. The offence revolves around not having proper control, so you'd have to evidence this as well as the fact of being drunk.

We stopped someone on suspicion of this Friday night after we saw them nearly fall off at a set of lights, then ride straight through the red light. Colleagues stop her and see what's going on. Turns out she's never ridden a bike before and was simply unsteady on it. No indication of being drunk even though she was not in control of the bike ¬_¬ advised her to maybe walk home rather than risk coming a cropper against a drunk driver and that it might be better to take your first bike lesson in daylight in a nice quiet area, not 1am on the highstreet...

#19 ninetyone

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 01:54 PM

The offence is s30 RTA 1988.
http://www.statutela...xtDocId=2276581

No power to take a sample because such a sample would have no meaning in court, you just have to describe how drunk they were in words.

Whoever mentioned the Licensing Act 1872 - that refers to simple drunkenness, drunk in charge of a carriage, horse, cattle, or steam engine and drunk in possession of a loaded firearm - but not pedal cycles!
Clarification: pedal cycles are included, as are many things, in this definition, but as it doesn't explicitly relate to them and as the RTA does, go with the RTA!

Edited by ninetyone, 07 June 2010 - 05:21 PM.


#20 oddbod

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 01:55 PM

Agreed, we can evidence drunkeness or being 'in drink' just through observation.
I was curious if there was a power to demand a specimin of breath from a cyclist?

*edit*
question answered while I was typing this.....

Edited by oddbod, 06 June 2010 - 01:56 PM.


#21 SC_GMP_BDIV

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 02:39 PM

As we (police officers) have so much contact with drunk people we are seen by the courts as experts in identifying drunk people. At least thats what I was taught in my training. If you say they were drunk in your statement and you evidence it properly then it wont/shouldnt be questioned by the courts.

#22 JS

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 12:43 PM

The offence is s30 RTA 1988.
http://www.statutela...xtDocId=2276581

No power to take a sample because such a sample would have no meaning in court, you just have to describe how drunk they were in words.

Whoever mentioned the Licensing Act 1872 - that refers to simple drunkenness, drunk in charge of a carriage, horse, cattle, or steam engine and drunk in possession of a loaded firearm - but not pedal cycles!

If you look at my post above: here

It specifically mentions on the PNLD that a cycle is a carriage for the purposes of the 1872 Act, so it does apply. You are, however, correct that there is no power to require a specemin of breath, It isn't true that it would have no meaning in court; it wouldn't be sufficient to prove the offence but it could contribute as evidence of how intoxicated they were (if your device gives a reading) in addition to your description of their cycling and ability to stand up / answer questions etc. You would also have to give suitable evidence that they gave the specimen voluntarily otherwise there could be allegations of improper influence being applied on the suspect.

James

#23 * V *

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 04:44 PM

Just to confirm what JS has said in the post above...

Whoever mentioned the Licensing Act 1872 - that refers to simple drunkenness, drunk in charge of a carriage, horse, cattle, or steam engine and drunk in possession of a loaded firearm - but not pedal cycles!


S12 of the Licensing Act 1872 does include bicycles (whether ridden or pushed!), as well as pigs, sheep, trailers and, interestingly, motor vehicles too (although S4 RTA would probably be more applicable for the latter).

#24 ninetyone

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 05:21 PM

I apologise, pedal cycles are indeed included as the definition has been somewhat stretched over time. I should have made it clearer that what I was trying to say was that is does not mention pedal cycles, as the point I was trying to make was that the best offence to go with is the RTA one, nor the Licensing Act one. Post accordingly amended, and my apologies once again.

Edited by ninetyone, 07 June 2010 - 05:22 PM.


#25 cyelrom

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 11:55 AM

Isnt there 'drunk in charge of a horse' too ??? :unsure:


Certainly, in fact it is covered by s12 of The Licensing Act 1872 and is still in force. The penalty is limited to a maximum fine of forty shillings or a month in the clink. http://www.statutela...xtDocId=1052305

Interestingly, the same section also makes it an offence to be drunk in charge of a cow. Makes you wonder what the words of advice the constable would be? "Okay sir, MOOve along now, MOOve along!" Posted Image


(edited for spelling, etc)

Edited by cyelrom, 10 June 2010 - 11:58 AM.





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