26 replies to this topic

[support]

This posting is a result of a discussion out of arming civilians, and police officers.

Apart from the UK (Excluding Northern Ireland) how many other countries have generally unarmed police officers on patrol (When I say unarmed I mean without a firearm) , I have listed below some that I am aware of, I would be interested to carry out a survey of the countries where the police are still unarmed most of the time.

Countries:-

1. England
2. Wales
3. Scotland
4. Republic of Ireland
5. New Zealand
6. Cook Islands
7. St. Helena - They also police Ascension Island and Tristan Da Cunha making there beat one of the biggest and most seperated by ocean.
8. Falkland Islands
9. Pitcairn Island
10. Iceland

Please add to the list any countries or police service which are unarmed.

[MJP]

Garda Síochána in Republic or Ireland are armed, as are the New Zealand Police. Iceland, having a population of 280.000, has decided to go down the route of not having a standing armed police force, however every single icelandic officer is firearms trained. They also have a special task force which is ready to respond to major incidents, the Víkingasveitin, or 'viking squad', which is armed to the teeth.

[civdef]

Garda Síochána in Republic or Ireland are armed,

Eh no. They're unarmed in same sense as British police are, only some specialist units carry firearms.

[at06]

As are New Zealand Police. New Zealand Police do not routinely carry firearms. I believe, and I may be wrong, that in most patrol cars, a firearm is stored in a secure locker, but they do not carry this on their person during the course of their duties.

[Hades]

Norway is unarmed I think...

[The Specialist]

Norway is unarmed I think...

Correct - the Politi work on the same basis as the UK.

You can also add the Royal Gibraltar Police to the list.

Edited by The Specialist, 07 December 2005 - 12:04 PM.

[Bosun]

As are New Zealand Police. New Zealand Police do not routinely carry firearms. I believe, and I may be wrong, that in most patrol cars, a firearm is stored in a secure locker, but they do not carry this on their person during the course of their duties.

Correct.

I'm sure KiwiPo will jump in if policies have changed, but in metropolitan areas, Detectives, Duty Officers, and some Section Sergeants are armed. Officers in 1 and 2 man stations can carry firearms at their own discretion, but these must be a concealed carry.

When I was working in rural NZ I carried a semi-automatic rifle in my vehicle (privately owned) for destroying any injured livestock I encountered, as rangers could be 200km away. Many rural Police Officers carried privately owned rifles or shotguns. This doesn't happen much any more due to tightened rules on firearms.

[Black Rat]

I think we're being a trifle picky on whether carrying a gun or having one in the car is classed as being armed routinely or not don't you ?

To clarify the point...

If you patrol with no weapon (gun) at all either on your person or in your vehicles, then this would be an unarmed force.

If however there is one stowed in the vehicle and accessible by the officer(s), then I would suggest they would be deemed as armed in the broadest sense of the word

[Bosun]

I see your point BR, but in my experience, having the firearm in the vehicle is the same as being unarmed.

Many of the incidents I am familiar with have been where the Officer has encountered an armed offender while responding to a routine call. In these situations, even if firearms were available in the vehicle, they would not have been issued prior to the call.

Maybe the topic should refer to Police Forces where every General Duties Officer ROUTINELY carries a SIDEARM? This is what springs to my mind when I think of 'armed police'.

Bosun

EDIT: To clarify the post a little.

Edited by Bosun, 07 December 2005 - 12:54 PM.

[Hades]

Iceland and Sweden spring to mind.

Sweden are armed

Funnily enough they even have armed security guards, but that's another debate entirely!

[OfficerGusto]

Sweden has also a long history of having officers getting shot. Sweden is one dangerous place for a bloke in uniform

[NJR]

Sweden has also a long history of having officers getting shot. Sweden is one dangerous place for a bloke in uniform

Is it

Eh no. They're unarmed in same sense as British police are, only some specialist units carry firearms.

Detective Garda carry firearms and some even carry uzi's!!!!!

[civdef]

Detective Garda carry firearms and some even carry uzi's!!!!!

Yep, District Detective Units, Special Detective Unit, Emergency Response Unit. There are no "armed response units" as such, it's one of the roles of detective units, hence my response.

[Black Rat]

I see your point BR, but in my experience, having the firearm in the vehicle is the same as being unarmed.

Many of the incidents I am familiar with have been where the Officer has encountered an armed offender while responding to a routine call. In these situations, even if firearms were available in the vehicle, they would not have been issued prior to the call.

Maybe the topic should refer to Police Forces where every General Duties Officer ROUTINELY carries a SIDEARM? This is what springs to my mind when I think of 'armed police'.

Bosun

EDIT: To clarify the post a little.

That depends on your perception of what an armed officer is Bosun ?

It would appear we are talking about it from a UK perspective, as opposed to a view point from another country, however each to their own views...

That said, until recently ALL Armed Response Vehicles were NOT overtly armed as they are now and had to seek permission to arm during their journey to an incident or were told to arm themselves accordingly.

They were still classed as armed officers then....

Now they have the authority to self arm i.e. draw weapons in certain situations and are commonly overtly armed with sidearms on routine patrol

[OfficerGusto]

(OfficerGusto @ Dec 7 2005, 5:29 PM)

Sweden has also a long history of having officers getting shot. Sweden is one dangerous place for a bloke in uniform

Is it

Well maybe not alot.

One police officer was killed by two bank robbers in 1966.
Two policemen and a security guard were killed during a stakeout in Handen in 1967.
One police officer was killed by a mad man with a shotgun in 1984.
One policeman was killed when escorting an armored car in Stockholm in 1992.
In 1999 two police officers were wounded, and then shot with there own guns, in percuit of three bank robbers.

Similar in Norway, only seven police officers have been killed on duty since 1945 in Norway.

Denmark however I think hasnt lost a police officer since 1974 when 3 or 4 officers were shot the same night. (dont quote me on this one.)
After that, overnight the Danish police was armed and all is merry since then

Iceland continues to be the safest place for police in Scandinavia. No officers killed with intent ever.


The shootings in Sweden in 1999 still sits in my head. Two wounded officers shot in the head by bank robbers with their own service weapons. Tony Olson the head of the gang escaped prison this year and was captured some days or weeks after hiding in a barn. One of the offender was Jackie Arklov, a convicted war criminal from the war in Bosnia. The third was Andreas Axelsson. All are/were active members of the swedish National Socialist Front, Olson was also a member of the Nazi Reich Front.

Edited by OfficerGusto, 08 December 2005 - 09:57 AM.

[kiwipo]

Correct.

I'm sure KiwiPo will jump in if policies have changed, but in metropolitan areas, Detectives, Duty Officers, and some Section Sergeants are armed. Officers in 1 and 2 man stations can carry firearms at their own discretion, but these must be a concealed carry..

Still much the same, although now Section Sgts usually drive wagons with a large gun safe so they can arm several officers at an incident instead of the officers returning to the police station.

Officers responding to a firearms incident can arm themselves, usually they only need to notify comms that they are carrying. Comms can also direct they arm themselves. When unformed officers are armed they also wera bullet proof vests, and the glocks are worn in the military style thigh holster.

There was some cticism in parliament a while back because armed officer were seeen present at a smash and grab, apparently armed officers had been returning from a firearms incident when were diverted to the smash.

However New Zealand is regarded as a generally unarmed service, and will remain so for a long time ot come.

[Sgt. Pepper]

My opinion on arming:

We're not at the level of threat where officers are being gunned down every day, it's a rare thing (thank God). It would cost a huge amount which sadly wouldn't be affordable for any of the forces at present, issuing firearms, constant training, ammo buying.

Police suspensions would possibly hit the roof and you'd have officers off the streets pending internal investigations. My solution would be to have an armed response unit at every Police Station, this would cost a lot less and would put those minds of people who are pro-arming at ease a little more I would imagine.

I hear the call for tasers too, I don't even think that's required at the moment, officers aren't using their CS every time they go on duty are they? Of course not...the threat for tasers and guns just isn't here luckily. I think one day it may go that way, but that's then and not now.

[bfc1900]

dont think nelson bobbies are armed....

[Sir William Wallace]

I thought it was just us and New Zealand, looks like I’m very wrong

[at06]

Yes, but considering our size and wealth, plus that there are some 150-200 countries in the world, we're still one of the very few

[Sir William Wallace]

true

[PBC_1966]

Countries:-

1. England
2. Wales
3. Scotland

How about Jersey, Guernsey, and the Isle of Man? Are officers routinely armed in any of these jurisdictions?

[Waddy]

That depends on your perception of what an armed officer is Bosun ?

It would appear we are talking about it from a UK perspective, as opposed to a view point from another country, however each to their own views...

That said, until recently ALL Armed Response Vehicles were NOT overtly armed as they are now and had to seek permission to arm during their journey to an incident or were told to arm themselves accordingly.

They were still classed as armed officers then....

Now they have the authority to self arm i.e. draw weapons in certain situations and are commonly overtly armed with sidearms on routine patrol

Ours still obtain the authority to arm which must be ratified by an ACC ASAP (or might be a cheif super) they can self arm if deemed necessary but this still must be ratified as soon as practicable. I beleieve ours dont overtly arm for routine patrol.

[AMC]

Is this thread about unarmed police, or armed police?

[support]

Is this thread about unarmed police, or armed police?

I was hoping to find out about unarmed police in the sense of countries where the police on a routine basis do not have access to or carry weapons (guns) in public.

I am aware that most countries with an unarmed police force will have contingency plans to call for armed support in the event of the need.

Rgds
C.