29 replies to this topic

[beemac]

Hi all

For all the moaning we do, myself included, is anyone thinking of leaving BTP? If so, are you considering going to another Force or has the BTP experience just made you think that you'd be better use down the pub of a weekend?

If you don't want to publish openly, please PM me

Edited by beemac, 15 March 2005 - 06:24 PM.

[beemac]

I see that plenty are looking, but no one's talking. Am I correct in thinking from that lack of response that all the wee moans we're all having are just that? Gripes!

Come on guys, let's get something down in this Forum; we're all pals here - or are you thinking of joining ad are a bit frightened? PM me then!!!!

[HP99]

I see that plenty are looking, but no one's talking.  Am I correct in thinking from that lack of response that all the wee moans we're all having are just that?  Gripes!

Come on guys, let's get something down in this Forum; we're all pals here - or are you thinking of joining ad are a bit frightened?  PM me then!!!!

Ok I'll bite.

Having asked before I took the plunge I have applied, as the only responses I got last year were positive.

Now after applying in November I'm starting to wonder what kind of p***poor oragnisation they actually are.

I don't really want to sit around drinking tea for 7 hours a shift, I can do that at home.
Having been independant patrol and driver before, I'm not looking forward to being a complete tool for 18 months while I get things signed off that are virtually impossible to do in the limited exposure we get to jobs.
(I have a traffic contact, so that bits potentially easy!)

[Ventress]

Ok I'll bite.

Having asked before I took the plunge I have applied, as the only responses I got last year were positive.

Now after applying in November I'm starting to wonder what kind of p***poor oragnisation they actually are.

I don't really want to sit around drinking tea for 7 hours a shift, I can do that at home.
Having been independant patrol and driver before, I'm not looking forward to being a complete tool for 18 months while I get things signed off that are virtually impossible to do in the limited exposure we get to jobs.
(I have a traffic contact, so that bits potentially easy!)

If you sit around all shift, maybe you're at the wrong station, our SPC gets a good deal with us, so speak to the skipper and get out and beat the public, I mean meet the public!

[DGP]

I'll bite too.

I have had a few issues with BTP. That is mostly to do with experiencing the same things I did when I was a proby in a HO force.

BTP beats HO forces on the fact that they are very supportive and friendly. As there are so few BTP officers there is no room not to get along with your colleagues as you have to rely on them a bit more than what a HO force would.

Also, the lack of Specials' politics in BTP is great. As there is no grade system there is no idiots telling us what to do and friction with the regs. But, there is no one to champion our cause. The portfolio for Specials is held by a SGT acting up and our agenda will hardly ever get fed into things at a high level. Whereas, in my old force the County Commandant had the ear of the CC and things got done.

My problem with BTP is that everyone is so process driven that the reason for doing things is often lost and the outcome unimportant. I see BTP like a franchise- every little unit has to follow rules to the letter so that there is consistency. I can see where they are coming from, but at the same time I think that things need to be adapted for local need. I have spent my whole police career until BTP having never read General Orders and seen policies. We just got on and done it and was governed by the two principles of 'don't take the pee' and 'do the right thing in the circumstances'.

As a Special no one monitors my hours or work. No one collates what we do, so there are no stats on what is achieved by Specials (such as number of arrests / hours etc). This is a shame because our work is not captured.

I think what BTP needs to accept is that Specials are not Regulars and that if they had a more focussed package on our development then we could have greater independence and get things done.

BTP could do well to accept the model of some forces and use Specials for high vis stuff. A group of 4 Specials could, say, easily blitz one section of line and produce results in relation to ASB and other complaints and get seen by so many people.

Now that it has been clarified that I did carry over my Independent Status I will have a lot more freedom so my major gripe with BTP has gone. Its up to me to carve my own niche and do what I want to get the most out of volunteering.

I suppose if you just accept that their are some bureaucratic zealots in the organisation that sometimes have to be challenged on issues then the rest of the job is out. But outside of London you might have to accept that things are not too busy.

BTP is still a great force. But someone of a more Senior Rank needs to be put in charge of the Specials. HQ needs to give Areas targets on the recruitment of Specials and ring fence budgets for Specials only so that there is the incentive to recruit, retain and utilise Specials properly.

There will come a point when I transfer back into a HO force because I am a career Special and will hopefully be doing it for years to come. But I am looking forward to learning more in this specialist role because I have a lot to learn in the BTP, whereas when I was in a HO force I kind of felt that my development just stalled.

I here to stay for the time being but if I cannot carve out a niche where, in all honesty, I start bringing the arrests in again I am off to become a 'local' again.

[Stiffman]

I got really fed up waiting for my full uniform and having a lot of regs who don't care about specials so I tried to transfer to the Lothian and Borders Police but unfortunately they wouldn't let me transfer, I would have to apply to them as normal. So I am still here with the BTP, my uniform came eventually but after I finish uni this summer and know where I will live I will definately apply to another force.

[PSYCHOSIDNEY]

HERE, HERE HERE,DGP you have summed up my sentiments exactly, Stiffman again i agree with you entirely, the quicker B.T.P realise what a valuable resource they have available to them the better, i get the impression that B.T.P only have a a special constabulary because the goverment say they should! not because they actually want one!

all i can say is that the "serious specials" should push and push for independant patrol status and prove your worth, the once a month folk should forget it, because the "establishment" will not take you seriously. its a shame because B.T.P is a fairly forward thinking force in my opinion and concentrates a lot on "minor crime" compared to most local foces who would normally :sad: "cuff it" !

[HP99]

Well thanks, thats a pretty fair and positive post. Your last few have a been a bit downbeat, and I've been wondering if there was any point joining.

[beemac]

Many thanks to those of you who put their proverbial in the noose and gave positive comments to my question.

I want to say that I agree with all that you're saying, and that's probably why a lot of us stay put with BTP becuase ultimately we WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

I would want to remind our English colleagues that here in the Northern Territory (i.e. Scotland), we cannot achieve Independent Patrol status and have to latch onto a Regular cop at all times (and I mean officially ALL TIMES). Yes, I've sat drinking tea, thinking "###### this for a game of soldiers", but I've also said to a regular to get up and out on patrol too, so either way I think I'm trying my level best. I also think thesee things are part of anunofficial test to see how we handle things. The size of BTP means that personal relationships are more important than in other Forces - I mean, we all have to get on as well as relying on each other more than Home Offic e counterparts. maybe that's why SPCs in bigger Forces feel like the little cog...

I am concerned that the recent intake of newbie regs up here will limit the number of Regulars we can work with and I'm seriously concerned that some of us will feel pushed out because of that unique aspect of Scots Law (two's company, three's a crowd). I mean let's face it, what regular tutor cop wants to be saddled with a probabtioner AND a Special (no matter how experienced) at the same time..? If forced to make a choice, what would BTP Scotland do? Hm, let me see...

[DGP]

Well thanks, thats a pretty fair and positive post. Your last few have a been a bit downbeat, and I've been wondering if there was any point joining.

Don't be put off. Decide for yourself.

Some of my gripes are unfair. I never expected to join BTP and have it like it was in my old force. But it took ages of sitting around as a probationer and developing my niche in my old force to carve a niche. I have just had to go through that again and it has been doubley frustrating. I just have to carve that niche again now that I have my 'independence' back. My transfer was not as seemless as it could have been and re-establishing myself has taken longer than I thought. But there is only half the politics of my old force, but double the bureaucratic zealots.

Give it a try but perhaps be a bit more realistic in your expectations than I was. I was expecting to see more action. I threw my toys out of the pram and I think the CI has had a word with a few SGTs so I seem to be getting deployed better. And I was so pleased the other week- I went a train for the first time in six months as a BTP Special!

[TUNNEL RAT]

i was sworn in last november and have about 300 hrs under my belt i have only good things to say about the btp. i have a OIC who is happy to let me run with idears i come up with the regs at my nick are some of the best bunch of blocks i could meet somone posted that outside london might be quiet please tell the chavs of southend on sea this as we are busy as hell most nights of the week with this lot i went for a open evening with essex police and when i told them i was a train driver they told me essex aint for you go to the btp and im glad i did
yes it has its problems but dont all companys ???
8453

[beemac]

i was sworn in last november and have about 300 hrs under my belt i have only good things to say about the btp. i have a OIC who is happy to let me run with idears i come up with the regs at my nick are some of the best bunch of blocks i could meet somone posted that outside london might be quiet please tell the chavs of southend on sea this as we are busy as hell most nights of the week with this lot i went for a open evening with essex police and when i told them i was a train driver they told me essex aint for you go to the btp and im glad i did
yes it has its problems but dont all companys ???
8453

Yes all companies do have problems, but there seems to be a fundamental undercurrent of poor organisation, a lack of commitment TO the Special constabulary in some areas, as well as a general malaise among regs in those places within BTP (I'm not for one moment suggesting this is a UK-wide thing), and that tends to be reflected in quite disparate local policies, practices and procedures in areas such as SPCs being allowed to drive, personal issue Airwave, etc.

BTP is not a private company, it's a POLICE FORCE (SERVICE?). They NEED us, they NEED to get their act together. They NEED to do this soon

[Big Yin]

..are you suggesting the Scottish area perhaps Beemac?

[TUNNEL RAT]

Yes all companies do have problems, but there seems to be a fundamental undercurrent of poor organisation, a lack of commitment TO the Special constabulary in some areas, as well as a general malaise among regs in those places within BTP (I'm not for one moment suggesting this is a UK-wide thing), and that tends to be reflected in quite disparate local policies, practices and procedures in areas such as SPCs being allowed to drive, personal issue Airwave, etc.

BTP is not a private company, it's a POLICE FORCE (SERVICE?).  They NEED us, they NEED to get their act together.  They NEED to do this soon

as far as i know you can apply for a basic drivers permit via your OIC mine was done in the first couple of weeks as for airwave i think that is down to how many pc's are at your nick i am lucky with my district post we have spare everything so got personal issue
yes the lack of commitment can be a pain i have found if i make myself busy things tend to get done

[beemac]

..are you suggesting the Scottish area perhaps Beemac?

Yup! There are a lot of good people there who seem to be just sick of the whol malarkey (maybe something you can confirm?)

[beemac]

as far as i know you can apply for a basic drivers permit via your OIC mine was done in the first couple of weeks as for airwave i think that is down to how many pc's are at your nick i am lucky with my district post we have spare everything so got personal issue
yes the lack of commitment can be a pain i have found if i make myself busy things tend to get done

But it shouldn't be mate. A national force with National policies shouldn't have these regional variations. Someone said (I think it was on the BTPSpecials website) that BTP seems to operate areas as kind of franchises. I think that describes them pretty well, but realistcially I get heartsick of hearing what SPCs in other BTP areas get to do whereas here I am told by regular colleagues that this Sergeant or that Inspector said "Specials are not allowed to do that"... Now, you tell me what's a guy to think of THAT???

[Biscuit]

I'm really looking forward to starting now....

[TUNNEL RAT]

But it shouldn't be mate.  A national force with National policies shouldn't have these regional variations.  Someone said (I think it was on the BTPSpecials website) that BTP seems to operate areas as kind of franchises.  I think that describes them pretty well, but realistcially I get heartsick of hearing what SPCs in other BTP areas get to do whereas here I am told by regular colleagues that this Sergeant or that Inspector said "Specials are not allowed to do that"... Now, you tell me what's a guy to think of THAT???

from what you have posted what are you allowed to do
i dont think its an area thing its a station thing peeps on my intake went all over the place some have loved it some are looking elseware but most in the same area
i would talk with your skipper find out what the problems are ask the inspector what he wants out of you if its the regs telling you all this it may be them after a quiet life not wanting to tutor if you still get no joy then chuck your card in and go to another force where people are willing/able to help

[Big Yin]

I'm really looking forward to starting now....

it's not that bad Biscuit!

[beemac]

  it's not that bad Biscuit!

Said the Big Yin who's left....

No seriously Biscuit, it isn't that bad, the guys and girls are generally pretty decent people and it can be loads of fun. We're debating about the ORGANISATION and how they don't seem to use SPCs as a RESOURCE. Individual cops are okay, they get to know you and they're fine.

Can't wait to meet you at the next training session....Hm, now there's another issue (Whoops, don't get me started!)

[DGP]

it isn't that bad, the guys and girls are generally pretty decent people and it can be loads of fun.  We're debating about the ORGANISATION and how they don't seem to use SPCs as a RESOURCE.  Individual cops are okay, they get to know you and they're fine.

I echo that. I have always that officers are extremely friendly and there are not many Home Office forces that would be so supportive of their officers.

[Biscuit]

Said the Big Yin who's left....  

No seriously Biscuit, it isn't that bad, the guys and girls are generally pretty decent people and it can be loads of fun.  We're debating about the ORGANISATION and how they don't seem to use SPCs as a RESOURCE.  Individual cops are okay, they get to know you and they're fine.

Can't wait to meet you at the next training session....Hm, now there's another issue (Whoops, don't get me started!)

Yes, reassuring words from Big Yin who's jumped ship and chased the money :grin:

I've got my dates through for Officer Safety Training, 26/27th April, looking forward to that.

[Big Yin]

so true lads, so true!

Edited by Big Yin, 24 March 2005 - 06:43 PM.

[Sidious]

Either things have changed radically in the two and a half years or so since I left the BTP SC, or things are bad at one or two nicks - I still look back at my time as a SC in BTP with fondness and it really pushed me on to join full time.

In many respects I regret joining a county force, not the BTP as a regular, and have been considering a transfer back as a BTP reg.

Needless to say I was not sat around drinking tea all of the time.

[beemac]

Yes, reassuring words from Big Yin who's jumped ship and chased the money  :grin:

I've got my dates through for Officer Safety Training, 26/27th April, looking forward to that.

Hope you're doing it with some of the Regs, as they are very encouraging and don't extract the Michael too much! There's one bit of advice I'd like to give - don't wear light coloured trousers... I'm sure the Big Yin will back me up on this one, if he remembers the session we attended at Kelvin Hall!