55 replies to this topic

[HP99]

<rant mode on>

I've just found out that it appears that the BTP area I want to apply to appear to only run 1 physical asssement per intake...

So having sent my application in Mid November, I now find out that the earliest intake I am likely to have a chance of getting on is now JUNE !
I did have to turn down a physical in February as it clashed with the only weekend since November that I could not get out of, but it now looks as if the next physical will be the end of April.
Having resigned from my Home Office force to move to BTP ( as they don't do transfers ) in August I'm kind of loosing 'the will to live' now.

Oh, the area, a small backwater which obviously does not expect many applicants. You might of heard of it, its called London South.

I was just wondering if this is the kind of thing I should set my expectations for in the future ? I'd hate to think I was getting into something efficient and well organised only to find out that I was wrong.

I thought that BTP were actively trying to increase the number of specials they had. From where I'm sat there does not appear to be too much in the way of it on show.
So from being an officer with 7 years exerience, from everything to Murder to Fatal RTI's, I am quickly loosing experience and by the time I get in, will almost certainly have to redo all training as everything will be too rusty.
While I dont strictly understand the 'no transfers' policy, I certainly understood the concept of apply like everyone else, then tailor your training to your experience.
By the time I get to discuss this with anyone, there will no experience left !.

Not happy.


<rant mode off>

[Bosun]

As a completely unbiased observer :grin:

YOU decided to change Forces...

YOU resigned...

YOU were unable to do the February physical...

I have been in the job in NZ (twice) and Australia (twice) and have been in the same situation as you, but at the end of the day it is MY decision, and I had to live with it. Now I have my sights set elsewhere, but if I can't get there it's not THEIR fault...

Grit your teeth, and put up with the pain in the short term for a long term gain.

My $0.02 for the day...

[HP99]

As a completely unbiased observer  :grin:

YOU decided to change Forces...

Agreed.

YOU resigned...

As the application form specifically said that you could not apply if you were part of a police force, it kind of meant I had to though.
Transfers would be a nice touch !

YOU were unable to do the February physical...

True, you can't put your life on hold forever though can you ? This was the only weekend since October that I could not really have done. And having booked travel and hotel accomodation I was not going to cancel it(well the wife would have not let me cancel it). If it had been explained that it was then or much much later I might have been able to make a different choice.

Edited by HP99, 08 March 2005 - 10:01 AM.

[GWENTSPECIAL]

BTP recruitment are very very busy at the moment they have a massive intake of regulars for all areas of the country they are pretty much snowed under at the moment.
they are also recruiting pcso's on top of the hundreds of regs
as you can imagine im assuming specials recruitment will not get priorority :sad:

[Bosun]

Having resigned from my Home Office force to move to BTP ( as they don't do transfers )

That's a bit harsh. In Australia we can't transfer directly between State/Territory/Federal Forces but we don't have to resign before we apply to another Force...

[Cam]

Chin up HP, it will be worth it in the end. We all know in BTP what it feels like to be ******* about but it's the system rather than individuals that's to blame.

[HP99]

Chin up HP, it will be worth it in the end. We all know in BTP what it feels like to be ******* about but it's the system rather than individuals that's to blame.

Well, thats expectations set properly then !

[Ventress]

I've been talking to Specials who are having no problems, also as posted, the BTP is recruitng every man and his dog, literally, so keep on their case, especially at London South, the Trg Dept doesnt give me a warm fuzzy feeling either and I am full time!

[HP99]

I've been talking to Specials who are having no problems, also as posted, the BTP is recruitng every man and his dog, literally, so keep on their case, especially at London South, the Trg Dept doesnt give me a warm fuzzy feeling either and I am full time!

Having phoned them this morning, I was not really filled with any kind of warm fuzzy feeling. I was just told "well you aren't likely to get in the April intake". Difficult to see how I can keep on thier case, there would appear to have not been another physical arranged. 1 physical per intake seems just a tad limiting.
Twas most annoying as the letter the occupational health forms said I'd miss the Jan intake, which as my form was in on something like 13th Nov, In theory I could have been in if they'd pulled finger from bottoms.
I guess theres no one to complain too, just a case of sit back and wait, and expect nothing this side of 2005 !
I might not be disappointed that way. At this rate, there is a good chance I'll have lost interest by then, it's not like I'm a 20 year old who's just dieing to get a blue light ride. I'm someone who wants to donate some time, but having seen and done most of it already, is getting nearer and nearer feeling like sitting in with a pint on a Friday night instead!

Edited by HP99, 08 March 2005 - 04:50 PM.

[DGP]

I wish that I could offer some words of comfort.

I transferred into BTP, refusing to accept that I should have to re-apply, re-train and go through probation again. It took the intervention of a Ch SUPT to get that one sorted.

There is a huge zeal in BTP to be process driven, rather than outcome driven- so there is little scope for common sense when dealing with some people.

However, once you re-train you will then have your probation and a 138 competency PDP to complete, which will take you probably 18 months, before you become 'Independent'. Your 7 years service will count for nothing.

Unfortunately, in resigning you have forfeited your service and will be treated like everyone else. Rather than transferring over and completing a training needs analysis so that you can be assimilated into the BTP.

A lot of BTP Areas aren't interested in recruiting Specials and only the London Areas have embraced the Special Constabulary.

BTP are approximately 300 Specials short of their 450 target that they wanted to achieve by now. In a country of nearly 60 million people recruiting 150 Specials is hardly an achievement. On my Area it was remarked that people in the Midlands don't want to become Specials, so why bother trying to recruit. Previous campaigns have failed, so it is obviously the fault of the people of the region rather than the quality and appropriateness of the campaign.

I was never a fan of a grade system in Home Office forces. However, one of the things that I noticed on moving other is that although BTP Specials are fully integrated, few people know our needs. We have no one to champion our cause and the officer who holds the portfolio for Specials at Force HQ is only an INSP, who does other stuff too. So it is not surprising that there is little strategic input about Specials to high levels. Perhaps I underestimated the importance of having senior Specials fighting our cause and winning us privileges and concessions. Although it is great to be integrated, I am not a regular office, don't pretend to be and have a different skill level. Therefore, I have my needs in developing and deployment that are different, yet not really met.

Is is disgusting that someone who wants to give up their time for the community and transfer from another force is put at the bottom of the pile for nothing more than administrative convenience.

Now the BTP Special Constabulary is ten years old it need to re-examine its structure, purpose and where it is going. At the moment I would liken the situation to being stuck on the platform waiting for the delayed 08.52 from Waterloo that has no driver and no route plan.

[panda plodder]

It does seem, looking at previous posters on BTP recruiting threads, that the dont seem to want a new influx of specials, or are dragging their feet on recruiting.

the official line is:

Recruiting is suspended and we have to wait until financial year end and gain authority to start again.

Trouble is they said that last year and are saying exactly the same again.

[HP99]

Unfortunately, in resigning you have forfeited your service and will be treated like everyone else. Rather than transferring over and completing a training needs analysis so that you can be assimilated into the BTP.

I was told I had to apply like Joe Bloggs MOP anyway, so I was not aware that was a possiblity.

[panda plodder]

I was told I had to apply like Joe Bloggs MOP anyway, so I was not aware that was a possiblity.

I'm sure I'm right in thinking that the BTP website says it will accept transfers from SC's.

When they first started with SC's they wouldn't in case there was any fall out with local Forces over pinching exsisting SC's.

[HP99]

I'm sure I'm right in thinking that the BTP website says it will accept transfers from SC's.

When they first started with SC's they wouldn't in case there was any fall out with local Forces over pinching exsisting SC's.

I was specifically told this by someone from BTP, can't remember who it was now, but it was something like the Insp responsible for SC's in London South (or similar)

I know the website mentions
"Contact our call centre on 0800 389 9426 (9am till 5pm, Mon-Fri) - (Transferees-Re-Joins call either, 020-7388-9121 or 020-7830-8871)."

When I called that number I was told it was for Regs only despite what the site said.

I guess it makes no difference to my situation either way now.

[PC_Plod]

Another thing to remember is the fact that there are only around 4 recruiting officers for the whole of the UK for BTP. Compare that to the amount of applications they have to deal with and, from ther regular application process, i think BTP do very very well indeed in getting officers into the job. I cant comment on the specials process, just the number of recruiting staff they have.

One other thing that has struck me is why you needed to resign first. Although there may nto be a direct transfer process (which i dont know why but thats nto for me to say) you would nt be required to resign from the specials in your previous force until you started with BTP specials. Similar to when i resigned from the specials to join the regulars, i didnt need to resign from the specials and then apply to the regulars, i only resigned as a special 1 week before my start date with the regulars.

Anyway, thats enough of me confusing the whole situation.

I can also see your point of view though and how frustrating it must be for you. Best of luck anyways.

Cheers

Edited by PC_Plod, 09 March 2005 - 10:11 AM.

[biker.r1]

I see from an entry on www.btpspecials.org.uk that the Insp at HQ charged with Complimentary Policing, which includes Specials, has advised that the Asst Chief Constable (Operations) will be contacting all BTP Specials with a view to seeing where we are and where we think we should be going in the future.

Hopefully all Specials will respond constructively and the responses dealt with quickly with actions being taken where appropriate otherwise it will be seen as merely a paper exercise and credibility will be lost.

I will reply constructively and keep an open mind.

One thing for certain I will be looking for is development opportunities for a) pre-independant status and b) when granted independant status as I feel there needs to be some sort of carrot to keep us enthusiastic and encourage development.

The other thing is radios - I would like to see personal issue where a regular commitment is shown.

R1.

[DGP]

One thing for certain I will be looking for is development opportunities for a) pre-independant status and b) when granted independant status as I feel there needs to be some sort of carrot to keep us enthusiastic and encourage development.

The other thing is radios - I would like to see personal issue where a regular commitment is shown.

R1.

I think that BTP must be the only force that requires its officers to complete a 138 competency PDP. Arguably, it means that BTP will have, on paper, very competent independent Specials.

But I think that BTP needs to review the role of Specials. We are not regulars and should be deployed in a niche way. The PDP should reflect the fact that we are part-time volunteer officers and should be reviewed. I see little need in getting BTP Specials to evidence such things as custody and traffic, in all honesty- however, others will disagree.

Whilst I have always campaigned for more training in my old force, getting someone to complete a general PDP could in some areas take in excess of 2 years (arguabley more). I am sure that this impacts on retention. A structured probation with a mixture of self-teaching, classroom teaching and assessment would be far better. For example, in the next three months you are going to teach yourself X, have this reinforced in the classroom then assessed by a tutor constable would be far better.

Making Specials do the same PDP as regulars does not reflect that Specials are different and have different needs. Its not a case of lowering standards, but focussing development.

But I’m alright jack. I don’t have to do a PDP and get my own radio anyway

[Bungle]

I think that BTP must be the only force that requires its officers to complete a 138 competency PDP. Arguably, it means that BTP will have, on paper, very competent independent Specials.

But I think that BTP needs to review the role of Specials. We are not regulars and should be deployed in a niche way. The PDP should reflect the fact that we are part-time volunteer officers and should be reviewed. I see little need in getting BTP Specials to evidence such things as custody and traffic, in all honesty- however, others will disagree.

Whilst I have always campaigned for more training in my old force, getting someone to complete a general PDP could in some areas take in excess of 2 years (arguabley more). I am sure that this impacts on retention. A structured probation with a mixture of self-teaching, classroom teaching and assessment would be far better. For example, in the next three months you are going to teach yourself X, have this reinforced in the classroom then assessed by a tutor constable would be far better.

Making Specials do the same PDP as regulars does not reflect that Specials are different and have different needs. Its not a case of lowering standards, but focussing development.

But I’m alright jack. I don’t have to do a PDP and get my own radio anyway 

In staffs we also have to complete a pdp!

[DGP]

In staffs we also have to complete a pdp!

The same one as a regular and to the same standrad, which is then submitted to the Training Department, then signed off following an interview with a Chief INSP? Someone said on another forum that there are only 4 BTP Specials in the country who have achieved this and mostly because the majority of those are on London North and based in a CoLP police station, so can do attachments with CoLP and sign off their competentcy (plus they worked bloody hard to achieve it, too).

A lot of forces do PDPs for Specials. But my understanding is that most do not have the same PDP or the same requirements.

BTP regs get 4 hours per week for PDP work, or at least they are supposed to. Having the expectation that Specials should do exactly the same is perhaps misplaced, rather than looking at the role and needs of a Special.

As a newbie I expect that it must be daunting to have to complete this huge task as there would appear to be little light at the end of the tunnel.

[HP99]

As a newbie I expect that it must be daunting to have to complete this huge task as there would appear to be little light at the end of the tunnel.

Shame its on a train !

[Ventress]

BTP regs get 4 hours per week for PDP work, or at least they are supposed to.

The key word is supposed to, I've been independant for 12 weeks and have yet to put pen to paper. Oh yes we hear about the famous 4 hours, when do I fit that in, between bail-backs?

[Headset57]

[QUOTE]
The London specials were probably BL / Liverpool St officers based on the 1st floor of CP6 / Bishopsgate COLP nick just over theroad from Liverpool St. There"s a very good relationship with Specials from both forces here, being ex both i can vouch for the oppertunity to do attatchments.
Jeff.

[HP99]

Well, its been interesting getting another insight into BTP. At least I now know what you expect (verry little I suspect).

The point of the whole thing that I think is the biggest let down is not the slow response from recruiting (which has been snail like in its speed), but the fact they appear to have only run 1 physical assement for the April intake. If there had been a second one, things would substantially better.
Running 1 date for anything when you don't control the availablilty of the people attending is a pretty poor way of arranging things, especially when it relies on people finding the time out of their own time to attend. (its a bit different with a serving regular, when you can say you WILL be there on that day)
So I'm now in the situation where having resisted going away in case it clashed with any BTP date, (since about christmas) and still not having been given possible dates in the future, I will have to decide to risk going away or waste more of the year waiting for BTP to arrange something. As the likelyhood of getting in 'quickly' (having now missed the second intake since I submitted a form) is now completely gone, and I am almost certainly going to have to just start again from the very start the same as anyone else, I don't feel motivated to care a great deal if I miss another date. Maybe I'll get in this year if I'm lucky !

Maybe I'll just look forward to slobbing out in front on the TV for the weekends, and not standing in the cold being sworn at by p1ssheads!

Edited by HP99, 11 March 2005 - 11:51 AM.

[Cam]

HP,

I would just carry on with your life as normal until BTP gives you firm commitments for training. Don't expect too much, as I said earlier. The biggest wastage problem with Specials is from people believing wrongly that something had been structured for them, only to get demoralised after finding that had never been the case.

Re previous service not counting, again I think we'd be struggling to find something definitive in black and white about this. I had to give up a fair old amount of my family time - weekends and evenings - for the best part of two years for application and recruit training - despite having spent more than 15 years with another force. And after all that, I was allowed to count seniority for award of the QGJ medal and bar to my long service medal.

TBH it seems to be railway industry thing. If you think we have it bad, listen to the regulars!

None of the above is any excuse, of course.

[Ventress]

TBH it seems to be railway industry thing. If you think we have it bad, listen to the regulars!

I have no problems with the job, its better than working!