:sad: had to take personal belongings from a one under back to a young mans wife and kids tonight the incident happened week before crimbo all the presents still under the tree dont think i have ever felt this helpless in my life i have had fatals as a train driver myself but never seen what the police have to deal with with the familys hope i dont have to deal with one of these again :sad:
1 votes
my worst shift
Started by
TUNNEL RAT
, Dec 31 2004 01:01 AM
31 replies to this topic
#2
biker.r1
-
- Members
-
- 720 posts
Experienced
Posted 31 December 2004 - 01:13 AM
Morning spc2staffs, that's one of the tasks I'm not looking forward to, the other being actually dealing with a fatality :-(
R1.
R1.
#3
Posted 31 December 2004 - 01:20 AM
body under a train no probs with but the family side of things na im still up thinking about it now this happened at 8pmMorning spc2staffs, that's one of the tasks I'm not looking forward to, the other being actually dealing with a fatality :-(
R1.
wonder if there is a course on this kind of policing
#4
biker.r1
-
- Members
-
- 720 posts
Experienced
Posted 31 December 2004 - 01:32 AM
Just wondering if there are specially trained officers that should be undertaking this sort of 'job' with additional training regards counselling (??)
#5
Posted 31 December 2004 - 01:35 AM
i have posted this in general dis see if any one knowsJust wondering if there are specially trained officers that should be undertaking this sort of 'job' with additional training regards counselling (??)
#6
Posted 31 December 2004 - 03:11 PM
I symapthise with you, I really do. A colleague I know at work had something similar to do. The husband had been killed in a motorcycle accident, and he had to deliver the death message on christmas eve to a wife and two children excited about christmas day.
When he got back to the station, he broke down in tears - which is totally understandable.
Horrible stuff.
When he got back to the station, he broke down in tears - which is totally understandable.
Horrible stuff.
#8
Posted 01 January 2005 - 07:38 AM
thanks o lordy one i did not know what was the best room to post itWhat a horrible job
I'll move this to General Discussion...
#9
beemac
-
- Members
-
- 67 posts
Starting Out
Posted 01 January 2005 - 08:52 AM
This is one of the saddest things about working with BTP, and I hope I never have to do it. I think that in Scotland they wouldn't let SPCs do anything like this. I don't know whether it's deliberate or not, but I really don't see us other than on the very fringes of a 'one under' situation unless we're unlucky enough to be the nearest/first on scene.
My opinion is that, yes there does need to be specially trained police officers for this role; after all, aren't traffic cops in other forces trained in this sort of thing? Then again, BTP might not want to spend the money... Then again, maybe this has never been suggested?
Thanks for sharing this mate. I wish you well and hope you're given help to cope with it if you feel you need it.
My opinion is that, yes there does need to be specially trained police officers for this role; after all, aren't traffic cops in other forces trained in this sort of thing? Then again, BTP might not want to spend the money... Then again, maybe this has never been suggested?
Thanks for sharing this mate. I wish you well and hope you're given help to cope with it if you feel you need it.
#10
Posted 01 January 2005 - 12:43 PM
I dont think theres any restriction in Scotland. I've not done a death message yet, but I think if my partner had to do one I would naturally go along too.
#11
Posted 01 January 2005 - 12:46 PM
Telling a young woman that her 23 yr old fiancee had been killed in a motorcycle accident then watching her collapse and start to hyperventilate.
On another occasion informing a young mother that her baby which was in an ICU had died.
And telling a family that their twin daughters + another had died in a car crash
( uninsured mini cab driver)
In an ideal world the officer should be FLO trained ( more are) but at 2am it could be anyone. From experience the sight of a uniform at the door always gives them some warning of bad news if a loved one has not arrived home.
Also during the Ambo dispute turning up without any kit and not being able to do anything (no defib/drugs/ oxygen/pain killers)
On another occasion informing a young mother that her baby which was in an ICU had died.
And telling a family that their twin daughters + another had died in a car crash
( uninsured mini cab driver)
In an ideal world the officer should be FLO trained ( more are) but at 2am it could be anyone. From experience the sight of a uniform at the door always gives them some warning of bad news if a loved one has not arrived home.
Also during the Ambo dispute turning up without any kit and not being able to do anything (no defib/drugs/ oxygen/pain killers)
Edited by avenger, 01 January 2005 - 12:54 PM.
#12
Posted 04 January 2005 - 11:44 AM
How saddening to have to do things like that.
I personally think that the police should employ social workers for jobs like that. Nothing in the training can prepare someone for that.
I am not looking forward to having to go to a one under. Not that one should express any kind of preference, but I would personally find it more disturbing to deal with the incident at the scene then break the news.
I personally think that the police should employ social workers for jobs like that. Nothing in the training can prepare someone for that.
I am not looking forward to having to go to a one under. Not that one should express any kind of preference, but I would personally find it more disturbing to deal with the incident at the scene then break the news.
#13
Posted 04 January 2005 - 02:01 PM
A family friend is a nurse and I'm sure that at one stage a few years back she was trained in counselling skills and worked with her local police to assist in delivering bad news. I think it was either in the Lake District or in Gateshead. She basically worked her normal duties as a nurse, but was also on 24hr callout for if the police needed support in these instances. I don't know how well the scheme worked or if it is still continuing.
I've done a counselling course, as it was an optional module in my degree, however, nothing can prepare you for delivering bad news, and I'm dreading the first time I have to do it.
I've done a counselling course, as it was an optional module in my degree, however, nothing can prepare you for delivering bad news, and I'm dreading the first time I have to do it.
#14
Posted 04 January 2005 - 02:31 PM
I've had one like that recently, a man got killed in a car accident and I had to spend all evening in the hospital with the family. Not a nice job.
#15
Posted 04 January 2005 - 03:06 PM
Just thought this info might help for future encounters. Just to explain, im a third yr nursing student, who as you might imagine has encountered fair share of grief through nursing and specials. One of the modules i studied is on communication skill's incorporating grief. A running theme through the course is grief and dealing with the news or giving it.
Firstly one thing as nurses we are taught to do, is called reflective writing. This is used to write down a positive or negative situation in order to make sense of what happened and or discover what (if anything) could have been done better etc. A good reflective model is GIBBS (the author) model of reflection. I have used this technique several times as a special, and many many times in nursing. You will already do it in some form in your head, this just makes it simple.
When dealing with grief, it is important to understand the stages of GRIEF. There are 5, these are, Denial and isolation
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance (Kubler-Ross)
By knowing this, you understand a little better, why someone, for example is behaving aggressively towards you.
When speeking with the bereived, it is important to observe effective communicatinoal skills.
Sit squarley (face on)
Open welcoming, receptive posture
Lean forward (suggests attention and interest)
Eye contact
Relaxed approach
This in our field is known as the SOLER acronym (WALSH, 2002)
Further to this, never feel you need to say something when nothing is being said, think personal safety (some people can become aggressive), dont lie. We are also taught that it is not a sin to shed a tear infact it can show empathy, however dont do a gazza and cause a flash flood in the living room. There is much more advice that could be given but my fingers are bleeding now and am losing all feeling in me bum.
IMPORTANT: This is stuff taught and researched to us or by us as nurses. I have posted it as a GENERAL help if indeed it is to anyone. It is no substitute for any training you might recieve as specials but it should help.
All this info is out there, and one particular person to look up on grief (as a starting point) KUBLER-ROSS.
Hope it all helps
Firstly one thing as nurses we are taught to do, is called reflective writing. This is used to write down a positive or negative situation in order to make sense of what happened and or discover what (if anything) could have been done better etc. A good reflective model is GIBBS (the author) model of reflection. I have used this technique several times as a special, and many many times in nursing. You will already do it in some form in your head, this just makes it simple.
When dealing with grief, it is important to understand the stages of GRIEF. There are 5, these are, Denial and isolation
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance (Kubler-Ross)
By knowing this, you understand a little better, why someone, for example is behaving aggressively towards you.
When speeking with the bereived, it is important to observe effective communicatinoal skills.
Sit squarley (face on)
Open welcoming, receptive posture
Lean forward (suggests attention and interest)
Eye contact
Relaxed approach
This in our field is known as the SOLER acronym (WALSH, 2002)
Further to this, never feel you need to say something when nothing is being said, think personal safety (some people can become aggressive), dont lie. We are also taught that it is not a sin to shed a tear infact it can show empathy, however dont do a gazza and cause a flash flood in the living room. There is much more advice that could be given but my fingers are bleeding now and am losing all feeling in me bum.
IMPORTANT: This is stuff taught and researched to us or by us as nurses. I have posted it as a GENERAL help if indeed it is to anyone. It is no substitute for any training you might recieve as specials but it should help.
All this info is out there, and one particular person to look up on grief (as a starting point) KUBLER-ROSS.
Hope it all helps
#16
Posted 04 January 2005 - 05:38 PM
As people have said, its not a nice job to do, especially at the time of year you had to. But dont forget your force has many ways it can help you. There are always people to speak to, and they provide councilling etc.
Hope you are OK though mate
Hope you are OK though mate
#17
Posted 04 January 2005 - 10:56 PM
I thought Family Liaison Officers had to do that sort of thing?
They are trained to the job after all.
They are trained to the job after all.
#18
Posted 04 January 2005 - 11:28 PM
What a sad thing to have to do.
I havent had to do anything like that yet and I hope its a good long while before I do.
It must be incredibly distressing for everyone.
I havent had to do anything like that yet and I hope its a good long while before I do.
It must be incredibly distressing for everyone.
#19
Posted 04 January 2005 - 11:33 PM
[quote name='bungle' date='Jan 4 2005, 3:06 PM']
however dont do a gazza and cause a flash flood in the living room.
Have only done a couple of Death Messages. Both times with a reg. Definitely not one of the better aspects of the job but, unfortunately, a necessary one.
Found it difficult to stem any emotions I was feeling at the time. What I found was that later on I just let it all out on my own. Spoke to a few other cops about and they said the same thing. I suppose though that everyone has a different coping mechanism for these events.
Grampian has excellent support from Occupational welfare, especially after the likes of Fatal RTAs etc. Good to know there is someone to talk to if needed.
however dont do a gazza and cause a flash flood in the living room.
Have only done a couple of Death Messages. Both times with a reg. Definitely not one of the better aspects of the job but, unfortunately, a necessary one.
Found it difficult to stem any emotions I was feeling at the time. What I found was that later on I just let it all out on my own. Spoke to a few other cops about and they said the same thing. I suppose though that everyone has a different coping mechanism for these events.
Grampian has excellent support from Occupational welfare, especially after the likes of Fatal RTAs etc. Good to know there is someone to talk to if needed.
#20
Misanthrope
-
- Members
-
- 756 posts
Experienced
Posted 05 January 2005 - 01:45 AM
As people have said, its not a nice job to do, especially at the time of year you had to. But dont forget your force has many ways it can help you. There are always people to speak to, and they provide councilling etc.
Hope you are OK though mate
I couldn't agree more with the above statement.
I am not a counsellor in any way. I'm only going to offer my 'few' years of experience.
Don't be afraid to talk about it or even afraid to want to talk about it. It is a dreaded situation which is very difficult for someone with little experience to cope with.
You may be able to....some people think they can. It might be something that will come back to you in later years and give you nightmares.
All I'd add is to not be afraid to use your force's counselling service. You will be able to do it through your OHU.
Good luck mate...
#21
Edward Tyrie
-
- Members
-
- 58 posts
Starting Out
Posted 07 January 2005 - 10:12 PM
When I start going out for the first time I will dread doing this.
It must be so hard.
It must be so hard.
#22
Skippy
-
- Members
-
- 247 posts
Settling In
Posted 08 January 2005 - 07:49 PM
FLO's tend only to deal with death that has resulted in possible criminal intervention ( i.e Fatacs and Murder)...However, it just wouldnt be possible to send a FLO to all sudden deaths due to the sheer amount of death messages that have to be delivered. I have done quite a few during my service and have had reactions ranging from extreme grief to absolutely none at all...
I know it sounds harsh but it's good to distance yourself when dealing with death otherwise you tend to dwell on it and it will eventually cause you problems.
The most shocking one I did, was to tell an elderly mother that her son was dead...I knocked on her door and asked quietly and tactfully if I could come in and have a chat....she let me in and we sat in the front room..I told her very gently that her son had passed away...she looked straight at me and said 'is that it..I thought it was something serious...he was a good for nothing layabout anyway'
What do you say to that?????
I know it sounds harsh but it's good to distance yourself when dealing with death otherwise you tend to dwell on it and it will eventually cause you problems.
The most shocking one I did, was to tell an elderly mother that her son was dead...I knocked on her door and asked quietly and tactfully if I could come in and have a chat....she let me in and we sat in the front room..I told her very gently that her son had passed away...she looked straight at me and said 'is that it..I thought it was something serious...he was a good for nothing layabout anyway'
What do you say to that?????
#23
Posted 08 January 2005 - 08:13 PM
I don't know what I would say to that, but would be interested to hear about what you did!
I would most probably shrug her comment off with a discreet 'chuckle' if you get me ... as she clearly couldn't care less from that comment.
I would most probably shrug her comment off with a discreet 'chuckle' if you get me ... as she clearly couldn't care less from that comment.
#24
Skippy
-
- Members
-
- 247 posts
Settling In
Posted 08 January 2005 - 09:56 PM
I gave her the contact number from the force who'd asked for the message to be passed and flustered my way out!!!! I was absolutely lost for words!!
#25
Posted 08 January 2005 - 10:06 PM
I know of a colleague who told an 'elderly' man that his son had died. This man, who hadn't seen his son who had been living about 350 miles away for AT LEAST 3 years couldn't even remember he had a son, and didn't know who this 'simon' was.
Going a bit senile obviously
Going a bit senile obviously
