I thought this was what employment tribunals were for?? And a Merry Christms to you too!
Tube drivers on two London Underground lines are to strike on Christmas Eve and 5 January in a row over the demotion of a driver.
Workers on the Piccadilly and District lines will walk out leading to travel chaos over Christmas and in the New Year.
They voted nine to one in favour of strike action.
Tube union Aslef accused London Underground of unfair treatment of the driver.
They also claim an appeal hearing took place without any representation.
BBC news
Tube train drivers vote to strike
Started by
pH_14
, Dec 14 2004 01:08 PM
18 replies to this topic
#3
Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:39 PM
I thought this was what employment tribunals were for?? And a Merry Christms to you too!
Tube drivers on two London Underground lines are to strike on Christmas Eve and 5 January in a row over the demotion of a driver.
Workers on the Piccadilly and District lines will walk out leading to travel chaos over Christmas and in the New Year.
They voted nine to one in favour of strike action.
Tube union Aslef accused London Underground of unfair treatment of the driver.
They also claim an appeal hearing took place without any representation.
BBC news
Demotion of a driver? How does that work then one day you're on the Central line and then you get demoted and stuck on the DLR?
#4
Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:40 PM
Makes me sick.
People who strike like that are nothing but vermin
I can understand striking years ago when they was no legitimate legal route to challenge injustice. But, if the driver was demoted unlawfully then he can go to a tribunal. The union's role is to support that driver and pay for legal representation- not to inflict suffering on people during the Christmas period.
If the driver wins their case then great! If they lose then it acts as a deterrent to those who want to act in the manner that the driver allegedly did to warrant the sanction in the first place.
People who strike like that are nothing but vermin
I can understand striking years ago when they was no legitimate legal route to challenge injustice. But, if the driver was demoted unlawfully then he can go to a tribunal. The union's role is to support that driver and pay for legal representation- not to inflict suffering on people during the Christmas period.
If the driver wins their case then great! If they lose then it acts as a deterrent to those who want to act in the manner that the driver allegedly did to warrant the sanction in the first place.
#5
Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:40 PM
Yep and it's precisely why I hate them.... it's not like they are rolled out to deal with major issues (like the firefighters) but for any old excuse where the union doesn't get it's way.
It's the toys from pram tantrum equivalent of modern industrial relations.
Roll on fully automated trains! (and I will continue to walk!)
It's the toys from pram tantrum equivalent of modern industrial relations.
Roll on fully automated trains! (and I will continue to walk!)
Edited by pH, 14 December 2004 - 03:43 PM.
#6
Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:44 PM
They hold TFL to ransom year after year (normally twice a year) for the same old reasons.
Presumably, health and safety has improved since the last strike but alas, early next year we will hear they are striking "for health and safety reasons".
Their public relations are not much short of appauling.
And those boys are on good money. But a strike next year is set in stone!
Presumably, health and safety has improved since the last strike but alas, early next year we will hear they are striking "for health and safety reasons".
Their public relations are not much short of appauling.
And those boys are on good money. But a strike next year is set in stone!
#7
Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:48 PM
Currently at £32grand for a 35 hour week (reducing to 33 I think by 2006) free travel for them and the family and about 6months holiday (well - a lot anyway).
I know this time it's about a staff issue but this REALLY ISN'T the way to settle things.
Commuter day of action on Dec 20th I believe... if only I had hopes that it would be effective.
I know this time it's about a staff issue but this REALLY ISN'T the way to settle things.
Commuter day of action on Dec 20th I believe... if only I had hopes that it would be effective.
#8
Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:50 PM
The best one was when the guy got sacked for playing squash whilst off sick. Of course, the union said it was his rehabilitation programme to get him back to fitness.
Nothing like a nice slow relaxing game of squash to ease you back into things!!
£32K for 35 hours - hmmm I'm in the wrong job!
Nothing like a nice slow relaxing game of squash to ease you back into things!!
£32K for 35 hours - hmmm I'm in the wrong job!
#9
Posted 17 December 2004 - 07:59 PM
and the first one that derails or crashes in a tunnel and kills people the first thing people will say is WHY WAS THERE NO DRIVERYep and it's precisely why I hate them.... it's not like they are rolled out to deal with major issues (like the firefighters) but for any old excuse where the union doesn't get it's way.
It's the toys from pram tantrum equivalent of modern industrial relations.
Roll on fully automated trains! (and I will continue to walk!)
and is it so wrong that a union is willing to stand up for its workers and not be walked over and concider this when train drivers strike it may take longer to get to work when firefighters strike people die
i am in no way saying that i deserve better pay than emergency serives just my union will fight harder for it
#10
Posted 17 December 2004 - 08:04 PM
demotion means moving down a grade to station assistant or along those lines also a cut in wages to the tune of about 13/14 grand and loss in pensionDemotion of a driver? How does that work then one day you're on the Central line and then you get demoted and stuck on the DLR?
#11
Posted 17 December 2004 - 08:05 PM
Well I have to admit, credit to them for having such a strong voice.and the first one that derails or crashes in a tunnel and kills people the first thing people will say is WHY WAS THERE NO DRIVER
and is it so wrong that a union is willing to stand up for its workers and not be walked over and concider this when train drivers strike it may take longer to get to work when firefighters strike people die
i am in no way saying that i deserve better pay than emergency serives just my union will fight harder for it
I still think they go a bit over the top - I simply don't understand why they will strike for health and safety reasons, and then the same again a short time later. Presumably the previous strike was resolved, so why the need for another one?
Maybe you could help me understand it better. That would answer many questions quite probably.
Edited by BasCop, 17 December 2004 - 08:07 PM.
#12
Posted 17 December 2004 - 08:07 PM
and the first one that derails or crashes in a tunnel and kills people the first thing people will say is WHY WAS THERE NO DRIVER
and is it so wrong that a union is willing to stand up for its workers and not be walked over and concider this when train drivers strike it may take longer to get to work when firefighters strike people die
i am in no way saying that i deserve better pay than emergency serives just my union will fight harder for it
How much do Tube Drivers earn? A damn site more than a PC with 0-5 yrs service i'll bet. The problem with the RMT (Or whoever the Tube Drivers belong to) is that they are willing to strike at the drop of a hat. How many people will the strike inconvenience? How many will be using it Xmas Eve and what lines will strike? The busiest ones? The concept of a union is a good one, but the leaders of them seemingly hold the capital to ransom at the drop of the hat.
Edited by Dave Humphreys, 17 December 2004 - 08:13 PM.
#13
Posted 17 December 2004 - 08:22 PM
i can only quote my own salary i am a instructor driver on the engineers trains on the tube 37 hrs week permanate nights 12 hr shifts on w/ends 41.546How much do Tube Drivers earn? A damn site more than a PC with 0-5 yrs service i'll bet. The problem with the RMT (Or whoever the Tube Drivers belong to) is that they are willing to strike at the drop of a hat. How many people will the strike inconvenience? How many will be using it Xmas Eve and what lines will strike? The busiest ones? The concept of a union is a good one, but the leaders of them love to hold the country to ransom.
the strike will affect thousands my self included the unions dont hold the country to ransom they talk to tfl tfl and tube bosses promise to fix the problem and dont the union will then strike not just for us but joe public too the last strike was over track conditions this has not changed the track is still in a right state with over 100 speed restrictions posted and drivers crawling around the system the derailment at camden town was rubbish point work the points are being replaced every 4 weeks because its a old system i am only glad joe public dont see the state of it in the tunnels and 9 times out of ten in a crash who is the first to get oh the driver
#14
Posted 17 December 2004 - 08:25 PM
How many strikes were there then over the state of the track and why haven't they sorted it if you went back to work. I would guess you are only allowed a certain number of days on strike?i can only quote my own salary i am a instructor driver on the engineers trains on the tube 37 hrs week permanate nights 12 hr shifts on w/ends 41.546
the strike will affect thousands my self included the unions dont hold the country to ransom they talk to tfl tfl and tube bosses promise to fix the problem and dont the union will then strike not just for us but joe public too the last strike was over track conditions this has not changed the track is still in a right state with over 100 speed restrictions posted and drivers crawling around the system the derailment at camden town was rubbish point work the points are being replaced every 4 weeks because its a old system i am only glad joe public dont see the state of it in the tunnels and 9 times out of ten in a crash who is the first to get oh the driver
It does need an overhaul but I just don't think the money is there.
Another Goverment responsibility.
PPP is a joke also IMO.
#15
Posted 19 December 2004 - 11:40 AM
Just thought i would enter into this debate, but first let me squeeze past those people pn the far right of the room
The right to withdraw labour is a fundamental human right.
The drivers on LUL have watched as one of their own is treated harshly and outside of agreed procedures, and have decided to show their support by a legitimate withdrawl of labour.
Thatcher tried very very hard to make damn near impossible for unions to strike, and granted she has left a lasting legacy that means it is much more difficult for workers to express their unhappiness, but she did not stop the strikes.
One of the major underlying aims of Rail Privatisation was to break the power of the unions. It failed. Spectacularly.
Everybody should have the right to strike.
The right to withdraw labour is a fundamental human right.
The drivers on LUL have watched as one of their own is treated harshly and outside of agreed procedures, and have decided to show their support by a legitimate withdrawl of labour.
Thatcher tried very very hard to make damn near impossible for unions to strike, and granted she has left a lasting legacy that means it is much more difficult for workers to express their unhappiness, but she did not stop the strikes.
One of the major underlying aims of Rail Privatisation was to break the power of the unions. It failed. Spectacularly.
Everybody should have the right to strike.
#16
Posted 22 December 2004 - 08:59 AM
One person drives through a red signal four times, a dozen people don't like their new kettle, millions inconvenienced.... hardly a balanced view of the right to protest!
#17
Posted 22 December 2004 - 10:33 AM
I reckon, downsize the drivers, pay the drivers less and introduce Special Train Drivers... I'm sure there are loads of train enthusiasts out there who'd do it for free!!
#18
Posted 23 December 2004 - 01:43 PM
i know pay us nothing close the tube down that will sort out all the problemsI reckon, downsize the drivers, pay the drivers less and introduce Special Train Drivers... I'm sure there are loads of train enthusiasts out there who'd do it for free!!
#19
Posted 23 December 2004 - 01:58 PM
I'm of the view that there's striking, then there's taking the michael.
RMT, in my media influenced opinion, participate mostly in the latter.
Too many strikes loses any sort of sympathy that people have for causes as it simply inconviences them all - once or twice they might live with, but two or more times a year and it just gets silly.
The tube needs modernising, we all know that... but it can't be afforded and it doesn't help when drivers keep requesting more and more and more pay. Tube drivers are paid EXTREMELY well - better than a lot of highly qualified professionals and should think themselves lucky in my opinion.
No offence intended
RMT, in my media influenced opinion, participate mostly in the latter.
Too many strikes loses any sort of sympathy that people have for causes as it simply inconviences them all - once or twice they might live with, but two or more times a year and it just gets silly.
The tube needs modernising, we all know that... but it can't be afforded and it doesn't help when drivers keep requesting more and more and more pay. Tube drivers are paid EXTREMELY well - better than a lot of highly qualified professionals and should think themselves lucky in my opinion.
No offence intended
Edited by DangerMouse, 23 December 2004 - 02:01 PM.
