60 replies to this topic

[Spartacus]

This is LONDON
30/11/04 - News and city section

British Muslims want Islamic courts
By Isabel Oakeshott Political Correspondent, evening Standard

Muslims living in Britain want courts to use Islamic law in civil cases relating to their own community.

A new poll today suggests Muslims living in this country want more recognition of their faith.

Among the changes they would like are time off for prayers at work and also for schools to give pupils the chance to pray five times a day.

The findings are in a Guardian/ICM poll published today. Just over 60 per cent of the 500 Muslims surveyed said they wanted Islamic courts, operating on sharia principles - "so long as the penalties did not contravene British law".

Many civil cases in this country deal with family disputes such as divorce, child custody and inheritance. Sharia law is highly controversial and interpreted differently around the world and any move to introduce it in British courts would spark huge controversy.

However, the poll also suggests that many Muslims want to play a greater part in British life. A total of 40 per cent said they needed to do more to integrate into mainstream British culture.

Find this story at http://www.thisislon...19859?version=1

[Minerva]

Err

[sarin]

I dont think so. Different laws for different parts of the community will create more barriers. 1 Rule for all I believe is better. At the moment religion is seperate from the law i.e the church doesnt govern the courts. Combining sharia with our own courts could have adverse effects.

This reminds me of a story about a sikh community in south london that partitioned the council to have their road names changed to their native language so that all the local residents who were all of the faith were easily able to navigate. I believe the council said that it wouldnt be practical as emergency services etc would not be able to read/translate the road names.

Everyone living under the same roof with the same rules...

[Pulpculture]

A total of 40 per cent said they needed to do more to integrate into mainstream British culture.

This was being discussed the other day on the radio. Any ideas how to do this?

[Basil Fawlty]

This story, just on what is reported, looks like some of the people surveyed advocate a move towards segregation rather than integration.

Why should one religion have its own separate set of laws and courts? If one religion has it, why can't all religions have it? There would need to be courts dealing with issues of Canon law etc. and would lead to an extremely complex and convoluted set of laws, not to mention creating a significant problem with regards to conflicting decisions with common law, Parliamentary statutes etc.

If a couple consists of a Muslim and a non-Muslim, and there is a divorce, then will the case be decided under Sharia law or English Common Law?

I disagree with the idea of one set of rules operating for one section of the community and another for the rest - it truly is segregation rather than integration and, like it or not, Islam is not the state religion in the UK, therefore I don't believe it reasonable to expect the state to introduce an entirely new judicial system for it, just as there aren't special Canon Law courts to deal with internal Anglican community issues.

As for time off work or school for prayer, that doesn't seem too bad if it is implemented properley and fairly.

[DGP]

This was a poll commissioned by the Guardian.

I don't believe in integrating Sharia law into British law. At its worst, it advocates the stoning to death of adulterers and gays. Quiet sickening, in my opinion.

I am all for integration, but there comes when a balance when some religious beliefs should be condemned as wrong. Some are fundamentally out of date and incompatible with tolerance. The new offence of inciting religious hatred will quell genuine criticism and is a fundamental mistake (although I agree with the 'religiously aggravated' offences)

I seem no reason why Muslims cannot be consulted on civil law issues and genuine and reasonable suggestions cannot be taken on board to make it 'Sharia-friendly'- as long as the spirit of it remains intact.

However, every man should stand equal before the law (forgot who said that)

[Bas]

Would this not be creating two judicial systems? OK not quite but you get my meaning.

If anything it will seem like different cultures getting different justice. It may not be the case, but to some it would certainly seem like it. I believe it would create further problems.

All in my own opinion.

[SpecialSpecial]

This story, just on what is reported, looks like some of the people surveyed advocate a move towards segregation rather than integration.

Couldn't agree more.

Matt.

[David]

I seem no reason why Muslims cannot be consulted on civil law issues and genuine and reasonable suggestions cannot be taken on board to make it 'Sharia-friendly'- as long as the spirit of it remains intact.

Why?

However, every man should stand equal before the law (forgot who said that)

Exactly.

[Basil Fawlty]

"The new offence of inciting religious hatred will quell genuine criticism and is a fundamental mistake (although I agree with the 'religiously aggravated' offences)"

Yes, I certainly think this is a bad idea. In a society that is increasingly litigious and sensitive to any inference of offence from any term or statement, this new law may well be used by some to censor any criticism of their religion, not matter how reasonable and justified it may be.

[Kitty]

I agree that this would be a bad idea also.
But to me it is a piece of sensationalist journalism. A poll was conducted amongst 500 Muslims and specific questions were asked.

Just over 60 per cent of the 500 Muslims surveyed said they wanted Islamic courts, operating on sharia principles - "so long as the penalties did not contravene British law".

If asked specifically if they would like Islamic courts, operating on sharia principles I'm sure the majority did state yes - in an ideal world.

It's a good way to create a lively article - submit a poll with some contentious questions and sit back and wait for the result.

[Basil Fawlty]

It worked!

[Lynyrd]

I don't see what the fuss is about. If you want to live in a country with Shariah law, you are quite welcome to. Simply become a citizen of a country who uses it. Now not being a muslim myself I am not quite sure which countries have this. Saudi Arabia, Nigeria??

Howver in Britain we have British Laws. Quite simple really.

Isn't there a saying, "When in Rome...

[Tin]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander...........

[Kitty]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander........... 

Unless it's Christmas, in which case it's equally bad for both of them ...

[Bas]

Unless it's Christmas, in which case it's equally bad for both of them ...

[YazzyB]

for 1 to combine shariah law would be impossible unless the whole country accepted it as its preffered basis of law

secondly

I don't see what the fuss is about. If you want to live in a country with Shariah law, you are quite welcome to. Simply become a citizen of a country who uses it. Now not being a muslim myself I am not quite sure which countries have this. Saudi Arabia, Nigeria??

how can this be so when any country that lives as an islamic state (not stating that they are true islamic states) have had are having or about to have the living rubbish bombed out of them by the usa and co

and as a final note i have a copy of shariah law here at home i am currently studying its a mountain thick and very indepth and in though some is shall we say a little out of date perhaps in the readers opinion its a pity our own law lords didnt take reference from it.
come on guys at the end of the day the law we know to day was born out of a religion and was used in a method of fear. "thou shalt not steal or thee would burn in the fires of hell and nay reap the fruits of paradise in heaven"

oh yes by the way for the record i am a white anglo saxon british muslim no i dont think shariah law should run side by side english law.

[Gforceuk]

as has been said , when in rome do as the romans do .

otherwise it looks like in some quarters to be a step towards making the uk an islamic state . well thats how the national front will view it and advertise it as such.

giving the nf amunition can only be a bad thing.


if it's not broke dont fix it.

[Tyler]

I think it is madness. In Britain we have laws, and thats the way it should be, but it should all be one law for all.

[Hades]

Definately sensationalist journalism, but a bloody terrible idea none the less.

I wouldnt get a British style trial if I were in an Islamic country and a Muslim shouldn't expect to have an Islamic style court in Britain! If you want courts based on the laws of other nations then you go to those nations for your court case, in my opinion.

[YazzyB]

thing is not to be un pc here and classed as a racist etc

i know we are a multi cultural nation and i agree when in rome...........etc

but i am sure that there are others out there who can understand what i am saying and understand it in an educated manner
it is every muslims right to want to live in an islamic state as you call it .. and there are various arguments for and against and various groups for an against only like the mormons or the pentucostual born again christians have a vision of a peacful world etc etc and groups such as the bnp nf combat 18 etc who are dead against most non whites living here never mind them having a seperate level of justice.... but i have noticed with recent things like religous criming human rights etc it will be interesting too see who gets control of the uk first europe or islam who knows

the majority of immigrants are muslim in the next 10 years the population will most likley have a 40% muslim population with the growth of islam in the communities as the fastest spreading religion not only in the uk but in the usa aswell

there are colleges up and down the country in existance to day wich teach young muslim men how to excell and become dr's , lawyers barristers solicitors politicians. mp's there is one near my town called hijaz hijaz homepage
i am not realy in to isalm in this depth. but read it boys and girls this is one of many and guess what its majoritly funded by the govenrment and charitable donations.... not a bad prospectus for a religous college is it ???

[sm00]

i Find it strange, considering the criminal minds,

Accused chooses to affirm,

case takes place. After the verdict is given the judge asks,

You are Muslim arn't you Mr ......, yes he replies, So why did you choose not to swear your oath on the koran, no comment. The judge shakes his head.

This actually happened in a case one the regs i usually go on duty with went to.

[Lynyrd]

If I was about to be buried in a hole with just my head above ground, and then some idiot throw rocks at my head until I died, whilst shouting some religious chant about “god is great” and the like, I would be praying that President Bush would send 300,000 US marines into the Country to get rid of these people.

Oh and for the above crime I had simply got pregnant outside of marriage, oh how awful, oh aren’t I just a wicked person. I mean really.

We have English laws and they are just fine.

Edited by Mihell, 07 December 2004 - 09:10 PM.

[Whopper MacBig]

If I was about to be buried in a hole with just my head above ground, and then some idiot throw rocks at my head until I died, whilst shouting some religious chant about “god is great” and the like, I would be praying that President Bush would send 300,000 US marines into the Country to get rid of these people.

Oh and for the above crime I had simply got pregnant outside of marriage, oh how awful, oh aren’t I just a wicked person. I mean really. 

We have English laws and they are just fine.

That's rather lurid Mihell. How does it square with

Islamic courts, operating on sharia principles - "so long as the penalties did not contravene British law".

And what are "English laws"? I thought you shared your legal system with the Welsh!!?? :wink:

[Lynyrd]

fair point, kinda got carried away