40 replies to this topic

[Pinky]

Teen abortion girl pregnant again

A Mansfield girl who sparked national debate by having an abortion without her mother's knowledge is pregnant again - and plans to keep the baby.
The girl was 14 when she had a chemical termination arranged by a school health worker earlier this year without her mother's permission.

Her mother wants a law which states under-16s cannot have abortions without parental consent.

The baby is due in July - just after the schoolgirl finishes her GCSEs.

Her mother said: "Me and my family are supportive 100%. We'll be there for her - like we said previously."

Aware she may be criticised for letting her daughter get pregnant again, she added: "She's 15, she made her own mind up. She was hell-bent on replacing the one she lost, basically.

"Other than strap her to her bedroom or follow her around with a camera 24 hours a day, I don't see what else I could do as a parent."



Is the Mother of this girl right to push for a law for parental consent for underage abortions?

How can England fight the rising numbers of teenage pregnancies?

[Kevinl03]

Is the Mother of this girl right to push for a law for parental consent for underage abortions?

Surely having to gain parental consent can only cause more harm than good?

I am not condoning pregnant girls keeping their condition secret from their parents, but ultimately, is it not the girl's decision whether to keep the baby or not, and not her parents?

Example: a girl becomes preganant, and wants an abortion. Mum says no. This is forcing the girl to have the child, something that will affect the rest of her life in a major way. Surely this can't be right?

How can England fight the rising numbers of teenage pregnancies?

Good question. I'd say through creating better awareness of safe sex and being more open about the whole thing. Because as long as we remain so "British" and uptight about sex, as long as it remains something naughty and something mysterious, then teenagers will continue to, for want of a better expression, "go at it like rabbits".

[Howzat]

I don't believe parental consent is necassary. If the kid wants the abortion, then fair enough. What would happen if a parent refused? Then the kid would be forced to keep it.
It's the kid's child, not her parent's.

my $0.2c

[Sheepy]

If the girl was stupid enough to get herself in that mess in the first place then let her sort it out . . . i feel sorry for the poor parents sometimes!

[xs13]

well you have all seen these girls on asb patrol........they are the ones drunk and still out on the streets at midnight ,14 15 16 year olds they do not care its fast becoming the teen culture go out get drunk end up with baby

[David]

Is there not a case for saying 'no benefits'? Wouldn't that solve much of the problem at a stroke? Yes, each and every case has its own merits and should therefore be judged on them perhaps, but if the fear of receiving no automatic money and housing, with all sorts of other goodies thrown in at each pregnancy without question, does curtail the feckless than that can only be a good thing, surely?

Let me say I am a full supporter of a robust and fair benefits system, but not its abuse. I appreciate that not all girls get pregnant purely for the benefits, although it is well-documented many do. Nevertheless, they know that somewhere down the line others are going to end up picking up the pieces and shelling out money left right and centre.

This must be in addition to moral lessons on 'Just saying no' and the media and advertising world's constant glamourisation of the adult world and insisting that children grow up ever faster.

[Kevinl03]

Is there not a case for saying 'no benefits'?

Perhaps not "no benefits" but simply, as I believe you hint at in your post, more stringent requirements for gaining benefits?

The fact that many young girls deliberately get pregnant for benefits is indeed well documented.

Nevertheless, let's not forget that a significant proportion of teenage pregnancies arise simply by accident or misadventure (incorrect use of/failure of a condom) or through being poorly informed about sex (not using one).

Benefits should be given to those who genuinely need the support, and not to those who intended to claim from the moment the "play" button was pressed on the Barry White CD.

However, as for discerning which claimants have the right reasons and which don't......

Edited by kevinl03, 17 November 2004 - 12:39 PM.

[Raych]

are you sitting comfortably..... i feel like i have done an essay!

Looking at ways of combatting teenage pregnancies has been a focus of my community studies as the area where i have my community placement there is a thorugh the roof rate of teenage pregnancies.

Most schemes that are set up in the area tend to be aimed at increasing sex education so really going to town on contraceptives etc but in reality it is failing and studies are starting to show that it is now drastically failing in terms of pregnancies but can be beneficial in reducing STDs

I think that a far more integrated approach to tackling teenage pregnancies is needed it shouldnt just be down to health workers to go into schools and do a couple of hours sex talk its just not sufficient. Some schools particulalrly in deprived inner citiy areas have now started giving out free contraception in order to try and reduce number of pregnancies as provision of contraception for sexually active youngsters if often very poor.

For any scheme to be successful funding is critical and at the moment most funds are plugged into mainstream iniatives which are often inaccessible and not targetted to the right age group. Also funds are limited as to most teenage pregnancy isnt a great health issue it tends to only be an issue only to some people if they have experienced it within their family or friends therefore the Government dont want to plug funds into when there are far great health issues to be dealt with. In my mind funding needs to be reconsidered and many more local iniatives need to be developed. Local areas under government guidance are now 'health profiling' their areas to ascertain exactly what the main issues are and whether they are being addressed and it is thought teenage pregnancy particulalry in inner city areas is going to be a major area that needs to be addressed.

Also in my mind teenage pregnancies and their causes are multifactorial and include social and material circumstances. For example the are im based in research has shown there to be a strong association between alcohol and drugs and teenage pregnancies. Therefore a steering group has been set up to look at reducing these aspects for example knocking down derelict buildings where the kids go to drink/take drugs and also working with other groups such as the police to try and improve the community in the hope that this will impact the number of pregnancies.
The aim of the steering groups main objectives are Better education about sex and relationships in schools, Involving parents in prevention, Effective advice and contraception for young people, Prevention work for those most at risk, Access to training and education, Support for teenage parents, Housing for teenage parents and improving to local community and developing projects for youngsters to attend.

Successful prevention projects include improved access to relevant services, address contraception provision and provide accurate and relevant information in a nonjudgemental manner.

Well thats just my views from the limited insight i have had in my training so far....

[David]

But surely handing out condoms and other contraceptives are tantamount to saying 'there you are, get on with it'? Heavens to Betsy, they are now talking of sex education to children younger than 12!

The argument for handing out contraceptives by saying 'Well they're going to to it anyway so we might as well make them safe' is rather self-defeating. All we're doing is condoning, even encouraging it. We might argue the same for drugs use - and I know that's controversial since there are those who would see the legalisation of that to make sure takers are protected.

However, I feel it's sending out completely the wrong message. Education needs to be based on 16 being the legal age. It needs to be based on morals coming back to society - that includes changing the national psyche for drinking (as I have argued for several times in here) where under age young persons don't get into these drunken escapades. Babies are not dollies or fashion accessories and this needs to be taught: far too many see them as extensions of playthings to dress up like their Tiny Tears from two years ago. If that means getting in other young mothers to show just how difficult life is with babies, then so be it. What about schools setting up creches? Is that a positive move? Isn't that again saying, 'hey it's alright, be reckless, doesn't matter, we'll help'? Wouldn't it be more helpful NOT to have creches in schools? Something for the potential mother to think about?

Of course accidents happen, and there will always be under-age pregancies. Always has been, always will be. But the more help they get now, it can only encourage more for the future.

[Raych]

i agree with you in someways that sex ed should be aimed at the legal age but in reality its just not like that! Ive met 11 year old girls that claim to of had sex and with that in mind that is why iniatives like free contraceptives are being handed out not only to try and lower teenage pregnancies but also to prevent STDs. it might be viewed by some as enocuraging them to act like rabbits but in the long term it is seen as beneficial in some areas

[Top Cat]

Reintroduce the sense of shame that prevented most for so many years...

[Sailor]

No, I don't think the parents permission should be sought. But parents should be notified well before the abortion. A parent, also has a right to know and no matter how 'mature' a 15 year old seems like, s/he is still a baby themselves.

How do we stop under age sex?

As others said, bring back the shame. Public caning of underage lovers. (Not the kinky kind of caning). That'd put people off!

[Ram1us]

Teen abortion girl pregnant again 

A Mansfield girl who sparked national debate by having an abortion without her mother's knowledge is pregnant again - and plans to keep the baby.
The girl was 14 when she had a chemical termination arranged by a school health worker earlier this year without her mother's permission.

Her mother wants a law which states under-16s cannot have abortions without parental consent.

The baby is due in July - just after the schoolgirl finishes her GCSEs.

How can England fight the rising numbers of teenage pregnancies?
[/b]

I teach in a school, very near this one, in Mansfield. Our catchment area is a very deprived one where education and jobs are not seen as a top priority by many, not all, of the families. Some of the kids i teach know this girl personally.

I am not suggesting that living in a deprived area is the sole cause of this girl getting pregnant. As a school, unofficially (from the teacher who was in charge of Y11) we can expect 1 or 2 pregnancies a year. First and foremost, our obligation is to the students, to ensure their welfare in such a traumatic period. After all, she is still a child and it is possible that the enormity of what has happened has not yet sunk in. In the original incident, when she had the abortion, the welfare worker had to respect the wishes of the girl. I would imagine that the adult involved would have encouraged the student to tell her parent(s), though for her to do so (the adult) would have breached confidentiality.

To be honest, this was a very hard call for the adult to make. Should one of my students become pregnant, my course of action would be to go straight to the senior member of staff concerned with child welfare. In this instance, i understand that the adult was a health advisor of sorts and not actually employed by the school. in this situation, i would think that patient (i.e. the girl) confidentiality has priority over informing parents. Myself, i would want to know if my daughter was pregnant. A very tricky situation where the adult found herself in a no win scenario.

Sorry if i have gone :offtopic:

[Godfather]

Perhaps not "no benefits" but simply, as I believe you hint at in your post, more stringent requirements for gaining benefits?

The fact that many young girls deliberately get pregnant for benefits is indeed well documented.

Nevertheless, let's not forget that a significant proportion of teenage pregnancies arise simply by accident or misadventure (incorrect use of/failure of a condom) or through being poorly informed about sex (not using one).

Benefits should be given to those who genuinely need the support, and not to those who intended to claim from the moment the "play" button was pressed on the Barry White CD.

However, as for discerning which claimants have the right reasons and which don't......

thats the problem, how do you prove who should and who shouldn't. And to deprive a mum of money could mean and in many case would mean that the childs health and welfare suffers significantly. Unworkable.

Just finding my favourite line, haven't used it for a little while but I know it's in here somewhere......

Ahhh, here it is - 'I blame the parents'.

Not always the case, sure, but in many many cases if the child was dragged up properly, taught basic morals, given guidelines on right and wrong and appropriate behaviour, helped to decide for themselves that an education and a career are actually worthwhile so you can have a decent standard of living etc etc, then you would see teenage/underage pregnancies faling dramatically. Sadly there is little chance of many parents deciding to change their ways and actually having a part in their childs upbringing and formative years.

[Tyler]

'I blame the parents'.

Not always the case, sure, but in many many cases if the child was dragged up properly, taught basic morals, given guidelines on right and wrong and appropriate behaviour, helped to decide for themselves that an education and a career are actually worthwhile so you can have a decent standard of living etc etc, then you would see teenage/underage pregnancies faling dramatically.  Sadly there is little chance of many parents deciding to change their ways and actually having a part in their childs upbringing and formative years.

I agree, I think the parents are a lot to do with how a child acts. Most kids look up to thier parents and kids know, if they get away with something once, they will always get away with it.

I partly agree with what David said, about taking away benefits, but again, ultimately its the new born that would then suffer, and that new born does not deserve that. I think unfortunately it's a viscous circle. And to me the only way of stopping it, is for parents to start caring and looking after thier children.

I dont think kids realise how easy thier life is in thier pre 18's. Thier attitudes need changing and the parents are the only ones that can change this.

[dawn]

I as a mother of a girl of 17 girl 12 and boy 9 am sick of people blaming the parents. I have always taught my kids to be sensible and take care bla bla bla the usual responsible spiel. However i know that my eldest was under age when she first had sex, at 15 she came in a drunk as a skunk (you should have seen me blow .
I have tried my hardest i have begged them to take care and be sensible and i for one would be blinking fuming if one of them got pregnant because it affects all of the family not just the child. council houses are not given out willy nilly contrary to public belief.
We had a 14 yr old have twins at my school, i objected when she brang them into school as it was nothing to brag about as far as i am concerned and luckily the head agreed with me.
Schools have some responsibility, my, son who is 9 was taught about the female sexual organs at school. i complained but was told it was on the national curriculum, i asked the teacher if she would not be better of teaching him how to look after himself at this age and leave the heavy stuff till later. i could withdraw him from the lessons but children gossip in the playground and if he has to learn about it it may as well be first hand .
The majority of us parents do our best. but when it comes down to it kids have their own minds.
maybe we should concentrate of letting the kids know what they could catch through sex not how to do it, and how they could ruin thier lives forever, we cannot turn back time.

[Godfather]

I as a mother of a girl of 17 girl 12 and boy 9 am sick of people blaming the parents. I have always taught my kids to be sensible and take care bla bla bla the usual responsible spiel.

Yes, so be it, but it IS the parents fault. You are trying and it isn't easy. So your daughter had sex under age, you didn't say she got pregnant, maybe she was careful? Maybe, just maybe, she had listened to you?

Stop defending the scum out there who don't care what happens and think it's funny when their kids are pregnant with kids, you are obviously trying harder than most and these posts are not aimed at you, but I worry if you can't see that in the majority of cases the parents lack of effort and parenting skills and discipline are responsible for so many of societies problems.

[dawn]

[QUOTE]Stop defending the scum out there who don't care what happens and think it's funny when their kids are pregnant with kids, you are obviously trying harder than most and these posts are not aimed at you, but I worry if you can't see that in the majority of cases the parents lack of effort and parenting skills and discipline are responsible for so many of societies problems.

gry: At no point did i say that i thought it was funny or did i say i agreed with parents who found it funny and at no point did i defend these scum.
I see more than most, alot of parents do not give a hoot about their kids, i work in a secondary school and have to deal with kids all day.
Schools lack dicipline big time, schools do the parenting job during the day.!!!!!
Do not tar all parents with the same brush, the majority of us care and work hard at being parents, you show me a parenting handbook......... they dont exist, if they did the population would dwindle big time if we knew what we were letting ourselves in for.
Do not judge all us because of a few who cannot cope and who for some have no one to turn to when things go wrong.
I would be surprised if you were a parent with teenagers and more suprised if they were perfect.

[David]

I don't think The Godfather implied YOU thought it was funny that teen girls got pregnant. I read it that there are others who DO think it's funny and to be fair, I really don't think he was tarring everyone with the same brush.

Nevertheless, there are the feckless and those who just don't care and those, I think, were the target of The Godfather's post, much of which is very true.

[Spartacus]

I've read this thread.. and its made me smile.

Without going into a dull story. My mum had me when she was 15. By her own admission.. it was a mistake.

Despite the pressure from her peers she didn't terminate the pregnancy. She looked after her father who was dying of cancer.. without the assistance of her mother (who had been sectioned) a week after my mum and Dad were married; her father died.

My mum and Dad had 4 kids by the time they were 24. They lived in Cranhill, Glasgow. They had NO education.. and they were penniless. Living in a god awful council house.. with no-one to support them.

By the time they were 40's though divorced and leading separate lives... their daughter is an officer in the Army and an Engineer, their eldest son is an IT guru and aspiring constable. Their middle sons didn't fair so well.. but are healthy and working. Mum is a doctor in cytology, Dad is a Director of an electrical firms. Both have their own partners.. and their own lives.

I would say with lots of experience.. they have worked the goddamn hardest I've ever seen of parents. From 6 Mum drilled into me common rules.. don't break the law, don't go looking for trouble, don't knock some girl up and ALWAYS support yourself. I mean drum. I'm talking about a chat every month about the effects.. why we were in the situation.. and how much better life can be.

I've lived by those rules.. and I've pretty much had a good life. However, I will say the same thing to my kids. There is no point in slapping them about telling them not to have sex, not to drink or take drugs.. it leads no where. They will try.. and they experiment. As sure as the sun rises. I will talk to them in an adult fashion.. I'll show them the social wasteland that a down and out council estate is. Show them what a single mother has go through.. more over.. get MY mum to explain how hard her life was.. and how good my life is in comparison. To prohibit or embargo is just asking for trouble.. warning them of the consequences is the best and short of chaining them up... the only thing you can do. Understanding them.. not judging them.. and more over asking them their opinion is probably the way to go. Understanding their friends, their social circle also helps.


Not all teenager pregnancies turn out to be ######ed up.. but the vast majority do. Spell that out to people. Tell them that they are going to be skint.. and basically spawn kids like them unless they sort their life out before having kids.

[Godfather]

I don't think The Godfather implied YOU thought it was funny that teen girls got pregnant. I read it that there are others who DO think it's funny and to be fair, I really don't think he was tarring everyone with the same brush.

Nevertheless, there are the feckless and those who just don't care and those, I think, were the target of The Godfather's post, much of which is very true.

Cheers David, you are right I was not tarring everyone with the same brush and was actually trying to be nice to dawn, but it was all kind of missed except the bits that were incorrectly read!

And top post Bert, you are of course right that not every teen pregnancy turns out bad kids, but many do, and it is how the new mum chooses to bring the child up that counts.

[Kevinl03]

And top post Bert, you are of course right that not every teen pregnancy turns out bad kids, but many do, and it is how the new mum chooses to bring the child up that counts.

Spot on!

I have mentioned elsewhere that recently I dealt with a 14 year old girl who was pregnant, hanging around on a street corner at 2am drinking a huge bottle of Lambrini.

When I asked her, was she not concerned about the effect the drink would have on the child, her reply was along the lines of "I don't care, if it's disabled, I'll get more benefits".

Imagine the kind of life that child will lead once it is born, with her as a mother responsible for it's welfare and well-being.....

[Godfather]

Spot on!

I have mentioned elsewhere that recently I dealt with a 14 year old girl who was pregnant, hanging around on a street corner at 2am drinking a huge bottle of Lambrini.

When I asked her, was she not concerned about the effect the drink would have on the child, her reply was along the lines of "I don't care, if it's disabled, I'll get more benefits".

Imagine the kind of life that child will lead once it is born, with her as a mother responsible for it's welfare and well-being.....

That is so sad. I only hope she has no idea what she is saying, and that when born she will love that baby. Children are hard work, children with disabilities take a lot more time and energy, and have a hard enough life as it is, let alone having a parent who only wants them for the money.

[RailCop]

What a surprise (Not) socio-economic group Z has another baby, take away the safety net of my free tax money and if that doesn't work, forced sterilisation! and whichever (as sure as night follows day) lefty gasps with shock at my suggestion, may I suggest that the spwan of this thick peasent is made to live next to him or her (the lefty) when they reach 14 onwards! enjoy.

[Godfather]

What a surprise (Not) socio-economic group Z has another baby, take away the safety net of my free tax money and if that doesn't work, forced sterilisation! and whichever (as sure as night follows day) lefty gasps with shock at my suggestion, may I suggest that the spwan of this thick peasent is made to live next to him or her (the lefty) when they reach 14 onwards! enjoy.   

Taking the money away deprives the child too, and then they really do run the risk of ill health and worse.

Plus we are talking about children here, children having children. I think it's more about education than 'forced sterilisation'.