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Paying Specials

payment pay bounty money remuneration payment scheme

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#26 Tom5901

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 05:49 AM

My personal oppinion is that I do not agree with specials being paid. Yes, we should be given expenses, but nothing else. If they start paying specials, you are going to end up with those who are doing it for the money and not the community.

At the end of the day, you are a special because you want to help your local community (and maybe gain experience to join the regs), not for the money.

#27 MattD

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 12:46 PM

My personal oppinion is that I do not agree with specials being paid.  Yes, we should be given expenses, but nothing else.  If they start paying specials, you are going to end up with those who are doing it for the money and not the community.

At the end of the day, you are a special because you want to help your local community (and maybe gain experience to join the regs), not for the money.

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I didnt think this was supposed to be a thread debating whether we should or shouldnt be paid?

but...as youve raised the point,your first paragraph is illogical im afraid. Do we get the wrong kind of people in the regulars becuase they get paid?

No, and why not? because we have recruitment procedures to keep out the unwanteds. Being a special unpaid is fine for those people who fall into 2 catagoreys:

1) The young 19-22yo students who have plenty of spare time and for whom monet isnt ever a worry or an isse
2)Those rich enough not to worry how they spend their spare time

for those of us who work full time and (recently for me) have a family it can be difficult to find spare time anyway. When we do get it then why shouldnt we get a few measely pounds for whatat times can be difficult and dangerous work?

I want to do something for my community and enjoy the specials but the idea that im only doing it for the money when that bounty wouldbe less than £1k a year is abit silly , i could earn alot better money moonlighting as a sparky

#28 SpecialSpecial

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 01:20 PM

1) The young 19-22yo students who have plenty of spare time and for whom money isnt ever a worry or an issue

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I'm a student at the moment and i have to watch every penny i spend so that i can afford to pay my rent in me bedsit,pay the electricity bill, gas bill buy food e.t.c. Admittedly i don't have kids and a wife to support but to say that money isn't a worry or an issue is inaccurate(for me anyway). Sorry that was a bit :offtopic: !

I'm with Grampian as a special and we started a 'Recognition Award Scheme' in April which i signed up to, the money we get next March/April will be a great help.

As terri said if we got paid then i would give up my part-job and would be quite happy to be out as much as i could manage.

Matt :whistle:

#29 MattD

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 01:26 PM

I'm a student at the moment and i have to watch every penny i spend so that i can afford to pay my rent in me bedsit,pay the electricity bill, gas bill buy food e.t.c. Admittedly i don't have kids and a wife to support but to say that money isn't a worry or an issue is inaccurate(for me anyway). Sorry that was a bit  :offtopic: !

I'm with Grampian as a special and we started a 'Recognition Award Scheme' in April which i signed up to, the money we get next March/April will be a great help.

As terri said if we got paid then i would give up my part-job and would be quite happy to be out as much as i could manage.

Matt :lol:

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ok ok but you see what im trying to say dont you, when i was a student it was easy enough to work a well paying part time job and study and to have plenty of time left over to have gone on duty if i wanted.

Basically what im trying to say is that for many of us in group 2 money is a real issue so giving our time up for nothing can be difficult to justify to partners , especially when it can at times be a dangeroous and thankless task. There are many instances where spouses across the country im sure say "for pitys sake if your going to do extra work atleast do something not half as dangerous and get paid for it" :whistle:

#30 SpecialSpecial

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 01:37 PM

Fair enough, i can see what your saying MattD.

I agree whole-heartedly with your point to.

Matt:scotcop:

#31 David

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 01:48 PM

Folk, please, Lord Vader initially asked and I have already pleaded: THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ON WHETHER WE SHOULD BE PAID, but one asking ARE you being paid or WILL you be paid.

For a discussion on whether you WANT to be paid or whether we SHOULD be paid, please start a NEW one. Thank you.

#32 Diesel

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 11:04 PM

Northants specials are not paid at all and as far as I am aware there are no plans to pay us at all.

(Would be nice tho! :offtopic: )

#33 cuff

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 10:27 PM

Not to go to far  :offtopic:  BUT...

I dont see how being a Special Constable isnt a part time job, we work part time hours and perform the same job as regulars when we are there.

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I disagree with the fact that you believe that you perform any of the same duties as a regular police officer.

#34 Whopper MacBig

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 10:39 PM

I disagree with the fact that you believe that you perform any of the same duties as a regular police officer.

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If he believes it then he believes it, whether you agree or not.

I think what you are trying to say is that YOU don't think Specials perform any of the same duties as a regular police officer.

Specials are not Regulars - that's a fact. But surely anybody with even a basic grasp of how things work in practice would accept that at least some of the duties undertaken by Specials are the same as some of the duties undertaken by Regulars ......

#35 cuff

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 10:50 PM

If he believes it then he believes it, whether you agree or not.

I think what you are trying to say is that YOU don't think Specials perform any of the same duties as a regular police officer.

Specials are not Regulars - that's a fact.  But surely anybody with even a basic grasp of how things work in practice would accept that at least some of the duties undertaken by Specials are the same as some of the duties undertaken by Regulars ......

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I stand mistaken. I do beleive that specials perform some of the same duties as regulars. But specials are not capable of performing most of what regulars do. Police officers deal with the real side of the police work ie:paperwork. Specials lack the knowledge when it comes to dealing with the paper work side of things and in many circimstances they can end up causing more problems than they realise.

#36 Whopper MacBig

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 10:57 PM

I stand mistaken. I do beleive that specials perform some of the same duties as regulars. But specials are not capable of performing most of what regulars do. Police officers deal with the real side of the police work ie:paperwork. Specials lack the knowledge when it comes to dealing with the paper work side of things and in many circimstances they can end up causing more problems than they realise.

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Yep, I can see what you are saying and can think of examples that would back up some of that.

But if Specials are not capable of doing Police work, why do forces let them join? And what about the not insignificant number who go on to become Regs - surely they have the potential to become more capable when engaged as Specials - why do Forces not make more of them rather than leaving them to "cause more problems than they realise"?

#37 cuff

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 11:06 PM

Yep, I can see what you are saying and can think of examples that would back up some of that. 

But if Specials are not capable of doing Police work, why do forces let them join?  And what about the not insignificant number who go on to become Regs - surely they have the potential to become more capable when engaged as Specials - why do Forces not make more of them rather than leaving them to "cause more problems than they realise"?

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Forces allow specials to join because they increase visible patrols on the streets and public then believe there are loads of police officers walking and driving around keeping them safe, when in fact this is not the case.
I think you misunderstood my point on specials being unable to perform the role of a regular. Many specials may be able to become regulars. Once trained in the correct manner many will then be able to perform regular police duties. However my point was that specials do the "cool side of the police work ie: arrests etc" and leave the regulars to deal with the ###### ie the paperwork. Although this is not there fault I know a lot of regulars do not see eye to eye with specials as a result!

#38 Whopper MacBig

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 11:17 PM

I don't disagree with what you are saying.

But what do you think we get in terms of training for this? If all the time that I've spent sitting in lecture theatres being shown gory photos about scenes of crime or having the technicalities of fingerprinting explained to me had been spent instead showing me how to put a file together then I think I'd be a much more useful animal!

The last thing I want to do is be a burden to the poor sod that gets paired up with me. I'm acutely conscious of the fact that when two Regs work together they share the work, but when a Reg works with me they have to lead on all of it. I'm not happy with that, but if the Force won't show me the ropes what can I do about it? At the end of the day I can't do any more than be willing to learn!!

#39 cuff

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 11:26 PM

I don't disagree with what you are saying.

But what do you think we get in terms of training for this?  If all the time that I've spent sitting in lecture theatres being shown gory photos about scenes of crime or having the technicalities of fingerprinting explained to me had been spent instead showing me how to put a file together then I think I'd be a much more useful animal! 

The last thing I want to do is be a burden to the poor sod that gets paired up with me.  I'm acutely conscious of the fact that when two Regs work together they share the work, but when a Reg works with me they have to lead on all of it.  I'm not happy with that, but if the Force won't show me the ropes what can I do about it?  At the end of the day I can't do any more than be willing to learn!!

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I fully agree with you. My original point was being aimed at the person who stated that a special was a part time police officer. Specials are not part time police officers they are specials! Part time police officers are part time police officers!! I think you get my point.
I don't have anything against specials in fact I welcome them. They are a useful resource and come in very handy at times. I welcome more specials to my force. Anyway it is getting late and I am on a early turn tomorrow. Nice speaking with you MacBig look forward to the pleasure in the near future. :whistle:

#40 Whopper MacBig

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 11:38 PM

I fully agree with you. My original point was being aimed at the person who stated that a special was a part time police officer. Specials are not part time police officers they are specials! Part time police officers are part time police officers!! I think you get my point.
I don't have anything against specials in fact I welcome them. They are a useful resource and come in very handy at times. I welcome more specials to my force. Anyway it is getting late and I am on a early turn tomorrow. Nice speaking with you MacBig look forward to the pleasure in the near future.  :whistle:

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Part-time Police Officers are defined in Police Regulations as Regular officers who work less than 40 hours.

I know what people mean when they confuse Specials with part-time officers, but you are right, it's not the same thing and Part-Time officers who have gone through a 2-year probation etc. etc. have every right to raise their eyebrows when the two are confused.

Welcome to the Forum Cuff!

#41 MattD

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 06:16 PM

I disagree with the fact that you believe that you perform any of the same duties as a regular police officer.

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I perform many of the same duties as my regular collauges -come on shift with me and ill show you.

Dont lump all specials in the same boat, many of us have put alot of extra time and effort into developing our skills and are quite happy doing the paperwork. Ive done files for Affray,theft,crim damage,possessions of drugs to name but a few..i can go on if youd like.



However my point was that specials do the "cool side of the police work ie: arrests etc" and leave the regulars to deal with the ###### ie the paperwork. Although this is not there fault I know a lot of regulars do not see eye to eye with specials as a result!



again your just lumping us all in the same boat,ive never left a regular to do the paperwork on an arrest of mine. IN fact there have been situations where regulars themselves would have handed the job over that ive stayed on to do the file and prove a point. In 5yrs ive yet to recieve more than 1 anti special comment, ive seen pretty much eye to eye with every reg ive crewed with.

When im on duty its work not play therefore its a job. A part time one cos i dont do full time hours. My original point stands i feel.

This is all totally :offtopic: considering LV`s first post.

#42 Secret_Squirrel

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Posted 05 December 2004 - 06:59 PM

We have just had word that a payment scheme is going to be introduced next year in Nottinghamshire, however the police authority still have to approve it in January. A similar scheme was put forward last year and they didn't approve it as the force couldn't afford it (however they could afford another 800 PCSO's yep I know its a different funding stream but it was still pretty damn annoying!!) quite a few people sent letters to the police authority and the command team, basically saying, its a disgrace pay us! and apparently they have got the message so fingers crossed in January for Notts Specials.

I don't know what the structure of the payment system is yet but it is going to linked to the numbers of hours that you perform, which I think is fair.

I still think the home office need to sort out a national payment scheme instead of relying on individual forces to cough up the money, if they coupled that with a big recruitment advertising campaign then maybe we would closer to the numbers of officers we would all like to see.

#43 inspector gadget

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Posted 11 December 2004 - 12:01 AM

at the moment sussex don't pay but can claim milage from home to nick and up to 6.25 for food on duty over 5 hours

#44 Kev A'Shot

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 02:38 AM

Hi,

Just started training with Hampshire, I joined expecting nothing, but if someone said here's a grand a year I would not, say no, but I didn't join for money so being paid nothing would not effect my choice.

I also base that comment on the fact I have a well paid job, I can see the argument for students to having perhaps there student loan reduced, which i'm sure would be a great help.

CHEERS

Kevin

#45 QA

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 02:29 PM

Tayside and Grampain share the same general trial for payment that Gazza mentioned above.

#46 evista

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 06:56 PM

derbyshire advertise a payment of £75.00 a year,but this is just really the boot and torch allowance.please let us know what feedback you get from your presention.

#47 Funky Drummer

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 07:55 PM

We've been told that this year we shall be starting the £1000 bounty scheme.

Our DCC decided that he wanted to reward the special constables in our force and did not seem too fussed about the final results from the Grampian/Tayside trial.

I believe this was advertised in the recent recruitment campaign.

#48 Whopper MacBig

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 08:23 PM

We've been told that this year we shall be starting the £1000 bounty scheme.

Our DCC decided that he wanted to reward the special constables in our force and did not seem too fussed about the final results from the Grampian/Tayside trial.

I believe this was advertised in the recent recruitment campaign.

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I don't doubt what you are saying Funky, but there is the small matter of requiring the legal authority to make the payments. The authority to make payments in the pilot areas is short-term and specific to those Forces.

Central could not do this on their own.

The recrutiment section on the Central website makes it clear that Special Constables are unpaid.

#49 Funky Drummer

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 08:26 PM

Fair point, I don'tknow the logistics and workings of it.

All I know is that at recent meetings the DCC had with all special constables he said to us something along the lines of "forget the trial schemes, we're paying our specials. It's in black and white and will start next year [said that in 2004]"

#50 Whopper MacBig

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 08:54 PM

Fair point, I don'tknow the logistics and workings of it.

All I know is that at recent meetings the DCC had with all special constables he said to us something along the lines of "forget the trial schemes, we're paying our specials.  It's in black and white and will start next year [said that in 2004]"

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OK, but honestly mate, Central really can't do that on their own with the way the Regulations currently stand.





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