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Arrest section 5?


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#26 Police Constable 1

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:01 PM

Yep, that's how it should be.

 

not really, the warning was only ever given to make it an arrestable offence, as that no longer matters the warning does not need to be given, its just best practice if it is given as it further evidences their behaviour, which I think your also saying officers should still do it, but only to evidence behaviour



#27 Joker

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

 

not really, the warning was only ever given to make it an arrestable offence, as that no longer matters the warning does not need to be given, its just best practice if it is given as it further evidences their behaviour, which I think your also saying officers should still do it, but only to evidence behaviour

 

Well I agree that a warning is fair, I always give warnings. Arresting someone for me is a last resort, but a necessary resort at that.



#28 rosco

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:19 PM

 

Well I agree that a warning is fair, I always give warnings. Arresting someone for me is a last resort, but a necessary resort at that.

Presumably you mean this only in the context of an S5, not as in "Please sir, if you stab this person one more time I will arrest you!" :)

 

Don't think I've ever arrested anyone for S5 without giving at least one warning, usually more are given or even moving to D&D arrest (as they usually always are in drink as well).



#29 Joker

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:20 PM

Presumably you mean this only in the context of an S5, not as in "Please sir, if you stab this person one more time I will arrest you!" :)

 

Ha of course! Don't think I could live with myself letting someone get away with that.



#30 Richhamdo

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:55 PM

Vampire , I agree, have been known to give them half a dozen at least, then walked them fifty yards up the street, then if they came back ,got one of their mates to take them away, anything to avoid a double crewed car leaving for custody with a prisoner and not getting back for an hour, invariably when the nightclubs were turning out,and you could bet your sweet life that if any crime or a domestic was going to happen in the countryside it would be then.However that's not to say that any one being violent towards others wouldn't get locked up.Rich.

#31 Rash

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:17 AM

Camera crew aren't cops!.
My way of dealiing with a 5 is to say,
1st one's free,
2nd is a warning,
3rd one's a booking, or a nicking, or a kicking out of the stn.

I very rarely do a 5 ( if it's just me there ) but do stick people on for byelaw 6 now & then.

 

lol I wish you'd been around yesterday afternoon. I was popping my daughter in the car, and there was a group of ten or twelve lads sitting on the promenade swearing like troopers. Being the upstanding douché that I am, I asked them to stop using that kind of language.

 

Naturally they didn't.

 

So I walked over and pointed out that this was a family place and there are a lot of young kids walking past, and again asked them to refrain from using that kind of langauge.

 

Let's just say it went downhill from there.

 

The missus said they were also asking women and even young girls walking past for sex.

 

By God I wish I'd call the Police :( A complete fail on my part.

 

Just out of curisoty, should you 999 it? Or use that other number?


Edited by Rash, 08 July 2013 - 09:20 AM.


#32 Headset57

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:31 AM

999 as there's a large group and they're bound to get a bit of bravado up in numbers, till some 'kung fu master' gives one of them a slap down!..

#33 Rash

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:42 AM

lol I think I'll leave that for the professionals.

 

They were vile human beings; it makes me worry what kind of world my little girl will walk into :new_eyebrow:  Then again, maybe it's an age thing. Most people tend to do the "in my day" line of thinking.

 

Anyway sheer stupidity on my part, granted. Part of me thinks though (that part that doesn't ache :new_doh2: ), that if everyone turns their back and walks away, you let scum like that think they own the streets.

 

*sigh*


Edited by Rash, 08 July 2013 - 09:43 AM.


#34 I99

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:16 AM

sheer stupidity on my part, granted. Part of me thinks though (that part that doesn't ache :new_doh2: ), that if everyone turns their back and walks away, you let scum like that think they own the streets.

 

Try talking to them in a language they understand and be assertive with it too. ;)



#35 Lone Wolf

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:45 PM

Can we stop using the word 'offended' please, it's not used at anytime in the legislation.

 

It is persons likely to be caused 'harassment, alarm or distress'.  That's significantly greater than being merely 'offended'.



#36 brnam

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:20 PM

Can we stop using the word 'offended' please, it's not used at anytime in the legislation.

 

It is persons likely to be caused 'harassment, alarm or distress'.  That's significantly greater than being merely 'offended'.

 

I find that quite alarming...



#37 Blue4Two

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:58 PM

rookie question, i haven't been out on patrol yet...

 

what CopPlanID necessities do you use for the majority of s5's? obviously a PND is very appropriate but if they continue to be abusive or refuse the PND which necessity do you use?



#38 Lone Wolf

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

rookie question, i haven't been out on patrol yet...

 

what CopPlanID necessities do you use for the majority of s5's? obviously a PND is very appropriate but if they continue to be abusive or refuse the PND which necessity do you use?

 

If they refuse the PND you can still report them for summons.


 

I find that quite alarming...

 

I'm not sure if that's intended to be witty or funny, but it's neither.  HTH :aok:



#39 Blue4Two

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:32 PM

 

If they refuse the PND you can still report them for summons.


 

if they continue to cause public order offences or it appears the PND wont stop them from performing the PND? ive seen countless people on a sat night be nicked under s.5 and carted of in the van and there hasnt been a mention of s.5, although i know some may be issued them at the station.

 

my worry is, is that the custody sgt will refuse detention based on a lack of COPPLANID necessities.



#40 Lone Wolf

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:14 PM

if they continue to cause public order offences or it appears the PND wont stop them from performing the PND? ive seen countless people on a sat night be nicked under s.5 and carted of in the van and there hasnt been a mention of s.5, although i know some may be issued them at the station.

 

my worry is, is that the custody sgt will refuse detention based on a lack of COPPLANID necessities.

 

Grounds to authorise detention at a police station and arrest necessity are two different things.

 

Note that I am advocating making that arrests that aren't reasonably believed to be necessary (which of course would not be lawful), but pointing out the difference.



#41 Blue4Two

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:37 PM

 

Grounds to authorise detention at a police station and arrest necessity are two different things.

 

Note that I am advocating making that arrests that aren't reasonably believed to be necessary (which of course would not be lawful), but pointing out the difference.

i understand that they are different things, necessity is just a small part of authorising detention. but my original question was what necessity would i have to arrest them? could i use public decency or is that purely limited to nudity?



#42 Dice

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:19 PM

I'd imagine the most common one people use would be to establish Address and/or Name

 

 

 

If you end up giving you the right name then you can summons or ticket them. 



#43 JonesyUK

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:22 PM

Arrest Necessity would likely be to prevent injury to the person or others. Their behaviour (swearing at people, etc) is likely to provoke a reaction from someone and result in either themselves or another MoP being assaulted.
 
"Crime and Courts Act 2013" will remove 'insulting' from s.5 POA. No date for it to come into force ATM.

Edited by David, 16 July 2013 - 06:18 AM.


#44 Lone Wolf

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:23 AM

"Crime and Courts Act 2013" will remove 'insulting' from s.5 POA. No date for it to come into force ATM.

 

I think this will have absolutely minimal impact on day to day policing, as most insulting words/behaviour used in the context of a public order offence are undoubtably also abusive :aok:



#45 Police Constable 1

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:28 PM

Arrest Necessity would likely be to prevent injury to the person or others. Their behaviour (swearing at people, etc) is likely to provoke a reaction from someone and result in either themselves or another MoP being assaulted.
 
"Crime and Courts Act 2013" will remove 'insulting' from s.5 POA. No date for it to come into force ATM.

You could also consider prevent offence against public decency and at a long shot, if they were being extremely offensive then you could argue protect child or other vulnerable person........

 

And dont forget there is always the good old s28 Town and Police Clauses act 1847 if a section 5 wont fit



#46 AA101

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:23 PM

You could also consider prevent offence against public decency and at a long shot, if they were being extremely offensive then you could argue protect child or other vulnerable person........

 

And dont forget there is always the good old s28 Town and Police Clauses act 1847 if a section 5 wont fit

 

Or in London the Metropolitan Police Act 1839 which bans all profanities that cause annoyance.



#47 SkinSte

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:56 AM

You could also consider prevent offence against public decency and at a long shot, if they were being extremely offensive then you could argue protect child or other vulnerable person........
 
And dont forget there is always the good old s28 Town and Police Clauses act 1847 if a section 5 wont fit


That doesn't always apply unfortunately. When will people remember that there is a small part of the UK called London where we don't all have these fancy laws available ... (although we do have other laws at our disposal as above).

#48 Ndaw4

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:56 AM

You could also consider prevent offence against public decency and at a long shot, if they were being extremely offensive then you could argue protect child or other vulnerable person........

And dont forget there is always the good old s28 Town and Police Clauses act 1847 if a section 5 wont fit


Have you ever used that successfully?

#49 Blue4Two

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:55 AM

That doesn't always apply unfortunately. When will people remember that there is a small part of the UK called London where we don't all have these fancy laws available ... (although we do have other laws at our disposal as above).

When will people remember that there is the rest of ..... 2 whole countries out there where the laws do work.

 



#50 Police Constable 1

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:19 PM

Have you ever used that successfully?

No, I have the trusty byelaw 6 to rely on!