53 replies to this topic

[mikeb21]

[Stratos]

I'm one minute in and the police seem tame if anything. There's nothing even close to a "beating" going on.

In some other countries he'd have been shot very early on in the video, going for that baton like that. In the same situation I think I'd have sprayed him earlier, too. Although it's easy to pick apart videos like this and say what you'd have done in the same scenario from the comfort of your chair, I think it was generally a job well done by those officers.

Even though over here he'd likely be going in a van or failing that have someone sat in the back with him.

Edited by Stratos, 17 August 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Burnie]

I'm one minute in and the police seem tame if anything. There's nothing even close to a "beating" going on.

You didnt miss much.

1:30 they Pava him and he gives up active resistance so they lower him to the floor, cuff him (using figure 4 leg lock and 'swan neck' wrist hold) and carry him to the car

[The Manc]

00:37 - The importance of Hindi Caps.

Good teamwork, especially when his colleague covered him - preventing his baton falling into the wrong hands.

[Judge Dread]

00:37 - The importance of Hindi Caps.

Indeed!

Well, both have terrible baton skills.

WPC does well to keep him off the downed baton.

Our man could do with some BJJ lessons as he turns the wrong way giving the slag full mount!!

Most worrying is ALL of the MOPs quite happy to stand around watching them struggle with the guy.

Certainly not a beating, incredibly restrained considering the tactical options available.

Easy to criticise from here, in the end they got their guy.

[Josh'Grizzly'Gregory]

What drew my attention is that people were just stand there, laughing/ what appeared to be laughter. Also, bravo to the two officers despite the lose and recovery of a baton as that could really have turned nasty.

[MrKguy]

Indeed!

Well, both have terrible baton skills.

WPC does well to keep him off the downed baton.

Our man could do with some BJJ lessons as he turns the wrong way giving the slag full mount!!

BJJ would have been useless in that situation, I doubht the police would be allowed to use the moves, but if the attacker knew BJJ he would have had that officer in a lock and knocked out in a matter of seconds. I am only talking as a " armchair critic" but I dont think at the start it was handled well. Well done afterwards though.

Edited by MrKguy, 17 August 2012 - 06:20 PM.

[Burnie]

What drew my attention is that people were just stand there, laughing/ what appeared to be laughter.

With the way they were cheering him on I get the suspicion that they're his mates.

[Stratos]

BJJ would have been useless in that situation, I doubht the police would be allowed to use the moves, but if the attacker knew BJJ he would have had that officer in a lock and knocked out in a matter of seconds. I am only talking as a " armchair critic" but I dont think at the start it was handled well. Well done afterwards though.

Well no, not necessarily. As the threat increases the use of force the officer(s) are likely to use (or could justify) would also increase. We also don't know what the officer knows, or is capable of, but wasn't using at the time.

Physical fights are unpredictable and you can't say with any certainty that any level of training or knowledge will guarantee you a "win". Given that the bloke was drunk and outnumbered I'd say him getting locked up was quite likely regardless of whether he knew BJJ or not.

That type of "I know x so I could do y to you" is usually spouted by arrogant fools who've let a bit of training go to their head. The real world isn't The Matrix, and knowing Kung Fu won't make you invincible.

[MrKguy]

That type of "I know x so I could do y to you" is usually spouted by arrogant fools who've let a bit of training go to their head. The real world isn't The Matrix, and knowing Kung Fu won't make you invincible.

True, But in reality its easy to break somebody's bone with minimal strength. If he did know BBJ he could have done it in 5 seconds. They are lucky he did not. I think it was good they ended up spraying him in the end.

[Josh'Grizzly'Gregory]

True, But in reality its easy to break somebody's bone with minimal strength. If he did know BBJ he could have done it in 5 seconds. They are lucky he did not. I think it was good they ended up spraying him in the end.

Your depictation of BJJ is way off my friend, after having trained with a few from the Gracie school they way it portrayed to me was more about: positioning, leverage and joint manipulation over bone breaking.

Anyway, yeah I had a feeling that they might have been his mates but surely it should of appeared to one of them to talk some sense into the guy if he/she refused to help.

[MrKguy]

Your depictation of BJJ is way off my friend, after having trained with a few from the Gracie school they way it portrayed to me was more about: positioning, leverage and joint manipulation over bone breaking.

Anyway, yeah I had a feeling that they might have been his mates but surely it should of appeared to one
of them to talk some sense into the guy if he/she refused to help.

I see you have never been in an arm bar then. I know what I'm talking about. What do you think joint manipulation turns into? >> breaks.

Edited by MrKguy, 17 August 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[boroughtrainer]

I see you have never been in an arm bar then. I know what I'm talking about. What do you think joint manipulation turns into? >> breaks.

Er...,dislocation.

[MrKguy]

Er...,dislocation.

hmmm. Do you know how serious a dislocated elbow is? ( not just popped out of place, that can just be popped back in ) I am talking about serious ligament dismantlement in a street fight , cutting of blood supply to the tissue.

If you want to talk further, PM me. this is about the video.

Edited by MrKguy, 17 August 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[boroughtrainer]

hmmm. Do you know how serious a dislocated elbow is? ( not just popped out of place, that can just be popped back in ) I am talking about serious ligament dismantlement in a street fight , cutting of blood supply to the tissue.

If you want to talk further, PM me. this is about the video.

Having caused a dislocated elbow, having suffered a dislocated shoulder on both sides through a motorcycle accident, yes I do know. It still isn't a broken a bone.
I'm fully aware this topic is about the video, however you started the 'side topic' of breaking bones and injuries.

As for the video, none of us really has a decent view point on a video started after the the incident began. Too many variables, the officers had to deal with a drunken big lad with a crowd near by. Both had a pistol on their hip to protect, no evidence that I can see of a Taser. Asps (or similar type extending batons) are not as good in the real world as a good old Acrylic or wooden patrol baton, hindi caps are good, but still not as good as a properly utilised strap.

[pmtts]

What a hiding they gave him!

[Hades]

Glad to see the public are just as useless as helping out the coppers in hat area as they are (for the most part) here!

Indeed!

Well, both have terrible baton skills.

There were some low powered strikes going in, but batons are useless tools for the most part in a fight. They're hard to keep hold of and hard to target against a moving/fighting person and people who are drunk, on drugs or with significant adrenaline often dont feel the effects at the time that they're needed. When you've been scrapping with somebody before drawing the baton you're already going to be tired and with loads of adrenaline going round, increasing the inability to use it properly and decreasing the probably decreasing the power.


Also, get real people. Stop with the bruce lee rubbish.

[pmtts]

Also, get real people. Stop with the bruce lee rubbish.

[MrKguy]

Also, get real people. Stop with the bruce lee rubbish.

Bruce lee did not train in BJJ. .

[Hades]

Bruce lee did not train in BJJ. .

As Karate Kid MrKguy here has clearly missed the point I was making (and even took the time to send me a PM, below)

I see you know little about fighting, Bruce lee trained regularly in.

Wing Chun
Jun Fan Gung Fu
Jeet Kune Do

He practised many others, but NEVER to the extent of those 3.

Please stop the billy big bits stuff about who knows the most about Brazilian jiu Jitsu and the types of injuries that can (or can't) be inflicted using different holds and get back to the actual topic, discussion around the video of these police officers arresting the bloke who is actively resisting. If you have some actual policing experience to base your comments on that can often be particularly useful for the rest of us...

[The Manc]

True, But in reality its easy to break somebody's bone with minimal strength. If he did know BBJ he could have done it in 5 seconds. They are lucky he did not. I think it was good they ended up spraying him in the end.

I cringe profusely upon reading the majority of your posts.

--------------

I dread to think what would've happened if the intoxicated gent managed to reach the dropped baton. Pistols drawn, I suppose. Could've ended far worse.

[MrKguy]

I cringe profusely upon reading the majority of your posts.

Why would you cringe? Have you ever had your limbs put into the wrong direction and realised how brittle they can be? Obviously NOT.

[pmtts]

Why would you cringe? Have you ever had your limbs put into the wrong direction and realised how brittle they can be? Obviously NOT.

Without further taking this topic off post. MrKguy you really need to grow a thicker skin on the forum. A perfectly reasonable question by Hades was put to you :

If you have some actual policing experience to base your comments on that can often be particularly useful for the rest of us...

You obviously have not so maybe it's time to move onto a different thread of your choosing.

Edited by pmtts, 18 August 2012 - 01:45 PM.

[MrKguy]

Without further taking this topic off post. MrKguy you really need to grow a thicker skin on the forum. A perfectly reasonable question by Hades was put to you :



You obviously have not so maybe it's time to move onto a different thread of your choosing.

What question was put to me? I missed it. sorry... D:

I re-read and saw the question , I dont have policing experiences but that's irrelevant as I have experiences in what I am talking about, IE martial arts. Some of you think I think I am some rambo type person, nope. I am not even that good compare like 80% of my class. I am just better knowledged than most of you as I actually do it, that's why your better than me at policing, its because you do it.

Edited by MrKguy, 18 August 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Hades]

I re-read and saw the question , I dont have policing experiences but that's irrelevant as I have experiences in what I am talking about, IE martial arts. Some of you think I think I am some rambo type person, nope. I am not even that good compare like 80% of my class. I am just better knowledged than most of you as I actually do it, that's why your better than me at policing, its because you do it.

As this is a thread about policing, not martial arts perhaps you should read rather than continuing to contribute irrelevant nonsense of your own accord, rather than leaving me with no option but to assist with that?

Your billy big bits posts aren't required.