138 replies to this topic

[159]

I totally agree with you to be honest.

As a Customs/immigration officer were trained to use asp/rigid cuffs, however all were given is a stab vest thats kept in a van and a set of foldable cuffs which are hidden inside a punch. Personally I would like to see us wearing stab vests with rigid cuffs and asps on display as a deterrent.

We often have the situation arise where we seize tobacco/vehicles and have the passengers kick off. I personally think it would be a deterrent having PPE on display, but it seems ot be a case of when we get injured thihgs will change.

We've got a nice new uniform arriving courtesy of CC Brian Moore, hopefully he will sort out the rest.

UKBA issues dual purpose ( green square ) body armour. That with all of the kit an enforcement IO has attached equals about 14 - 16 lbs depending on the size of vest. Trust me mate you port guys do not want to be wearing that for an entire shift.

[Radman]

UKBA issues dual purpose ( green square ) body armour. That with all of the kit an enforcement IO has attached equals about 14 - 16 lbs depending on the size of vest. Trust me mate you port guys do not want to be wearing that for an entire shift.

Police wear body armour on duty.

Whats the problem? At the end of the day you're Law Enforcement Officers, you should have the kit you need to do your jobs properly.

[Police Constable 1]

I do think we need an airport service but I dont know if it should be a new force or passed to another force to take on

[159]

Police wear body armour on duty.

Whats the problem? At the end of the day you're Law Enforcement Officers, you should have the kit you need to do your jobs properly.

The port environment he works in doesnt necessarily need it 24/7 in the same way you ( as a bobby or me as an Enforcement IO ) do in the street. He works in a controlled and relatively secure airport (port ) or Port ( ala Dover etc ). As for armour being a visual deterrent. I'm sure you can attest to how people are perfectly willing to assault you with a vest. I sure can.

[Radman]

The port environment he works in doesnt necessarily need it 24/7 in the same way you ( as a bobby or me as an Enforcement IO ) do in the street. He works in a controlled and relatively secure airport (port ) or Port ( ala Dover etc ). As for armour being a visual deterrent. I'm sure you can attest to how people are perfectly willing to assault you with a vest. I sure can.

But he is an enforcement officer, he is enforcing laws and legislation, heck he's even seizing property from people and potentially arresting them.

Body armour does more then protect you from a knife or a bullet it protects you from kicks and punches aswell, trust me I can testify to this fact, you take a punch to the gut wearing body armour you arent going to really feel it, take it without any armour and you'll be wretching on the floor.

Why not carry this equipment? As i've said before the fact that he's in a supposed 'controled' environment means nothing, people have and will get through with weapons and some people will always become violent - why does he not have the tools available to him?

It is madness, as with every other nation on the planet you should be carrying full PPE - after a recent trip to Hong Kong the immigration officers over there carry .38's on their hips.

Edited by Radman, 08 July 2012 - 09:03 PM.

[159]

But he is an enforcement officer, he is enforcing laws and legislation, heck he's even seizing property from people and potentially arresting them.

Body armour does more then protect you from a knife or a bullet it protects you from kicks and punches aswell, trust me I can testify to this fact, you take a punch to the gut wearing body armour you arent going to really feel it, take it without any armour and you'll be wretching on the floor.

Why not carry this equipment? As i've said before the fact that he's in a supposed 'controled' environment means nothing, people have and will get through with weapons.

I'd give doctors and nurses body armour before I gave a port customs/immigration officer one. I dont think we are going to come to a consensus on this

What I am interested in is our new uniform that he mentioned. I'd put money on it looking more like plod.

[Radman]

I'd give doctors and nurses body armour before I gave a port customs/immigration officer one. I dont think we are going to come to a consensus on this

We may not come to an agreement but I have to ask...

Why out of interest? They are law enforcement officers with the power of arrest? Why not give them equipment/training that would make the job easier?

What I am interested in is our new uniform that he mentioned. I'd put money on it looking more like plod.

How many uniform changes have you had out of interest?

I know your warrant cards went through numerous changes aswell.

If they go ahead and make you look more like cops (which is no bad thing in my opinion) then I hope they go the full hog and issue you with further PPE.

[159]

We may not come to an agreement but I have to ask...

Why out of interest? They are law enforcement officers with the power of arrest? Why not give them equipment/training that would make the job easier?



How many uniform changes have you had out of interest?

I know your warrant cards went through numerous changes aswell.

If they go ahead and make you look more like cops (which is no bad thing in my opinion) then I hope they go the full hog and issue you with further PPE.

I've had 2 uniform changes in an inland enforcement team. One change of warrant card. As for further ppe I have cuffs and baton at the moment with my armour. CS or Pava might be handy ( as an ex special ) seing as I spend my life walking into kitchens and peoples houses. HMIC has actually stated that there is no barrier to inland enforcement teams operating with CS/Pava. The issue is with the Home Office and its unwillingness to make civil servants look " less than fluffy " for want of a better term.

[support]

In the US and Canada, immigration officers at airports are armed along with customs and border patrol services, the UK seems to have a mentality which within the Home Office is against arming or providing protection to anyone other than the police.

In Australia and some parts of europe it is common for security officers to carry firearms and batons, handcuffs and look like our armed police.

[Hades]

A BTP cop who'd specialise in Airport Policing would know the legislation in place and would know the byelaws that are applicable (alot of cops turn their noses up at byelaws but they are SO useful...)

The major airports would have a 24hour cover but even the smaller ones would be able to put tenders in for officers to work out of their sites, this is what Airport Authorities (along with the BAA) were asking for - the ability for BTP to atleast put forward a business plan... Currently they cant and we cant either.

Didn't know policing was about bidding for contracts for jurisdiction...! Then again, it is all about privatising the job at the moment...

Also, I'm pretty sure that the met officers covering heathrow, or the sussex officers at gatwick, etc etc are probably going to know the byelaws applicable to the airports they're stationed at. You don't need to work for the BTP to be a specialist in a certain area of policing...

[Burnie]

Didn't know policing was about bidding for contracts for jurisdiction...! Then again, it is all about privatising the job at the moment...

Well given that Airports pay for their policing is it wrong for those airports to have a choice to ensure they get a fair deal?

Currently that choice is only available where an airport is on the borders of two forces (Like East Midlands which sits in Derbyshire but is Policed by Leicestershire)


At the risk of sounding slightly hypocritical though I am in favour of all airports being policed by the same force. That way intel/all ports bulletins can be rapidly distributed faster than currently. It also allows a crime victim on domestic flights to catch their flight without delay and have their statement taken by an officer from the same force (and therefore access to the same crime reporting systems) on arrival rather than the current process of asking another force to find an officer to take a statement or waiting for the victim to come home (though it doesnt solve the issue of international travelling victims).

Suspects on Domestic flights can also be nicked and dealt with on arrival at destination after a quick radio communication rather than the current process of either listing as Wanted on PNC and waiting for them to eventually get stopped or sending an arrest request to the receiving force which takes considerable time to do. Neither of those systems beat the aircraft to its destination whereas a radio call within 1 force can..

Edited by Burnie, 09 July 2012 - 12:31 AM.

[Radman]

Didn't know policing was about bidding for contracts for jurisdiction...! Then again, it is all about privatising the job at the moment...

It always has been for the airports - they pay for their own police presence and legally have to put into the pot, much like the railway TOCs with us - they have to pay for BTP as per the statute legislation (don't ask me to quote it, PC1 will probably know)

Also, I'm pretty sure that the met officers covering heathrow, or the sussex officers at gatwick, etc etc are probably going to know the byelaws applicable to the airports they're stationed at. You don't need to work for the BTP to be a specialist in a certain area of policing...

I disagree to an extent but will meet you three quarters of the way on that one

To be fair I don't think the Met would lose Heathrow should something radical happen in the future and BTP starts to cover certain airports.

The Met would certainly put up a fight and it is very influential (obviously) what I DO think will happen is many of the smaller airports will ask for some form BTP cover and we'd move in from there - the airports authority have show an interest in the idea including the BAA but it's just the DFT and our government doing something about it.

[Powerful_Rogue]

SInce I joined in 2008 this will be my 5th uniform change.

UK Immigration Service to
UK Border and Immigration Agency to
UK Border Agency (Rebranded tshirts/coats etc) to
the current UKBA uniform which will be replaced next year with the Border Force uniform.

The new uniform is due out around Jan 2013 and I must say it does look pretty smart. As for us looking plod like, the current head of Border Force is a Chief Constable to so i'll let you work that one out! There also re-introducing the flat cap.

Unfortunatly I couldnt find any pictures online, but heres an article - http://www.telegraph...ew-uniform.html

Edited by Powerful_Rogue, 09 July 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[159]

SInce I joined in 2008 this will be my 5th uniform change.

UK Immigration Service to
UK Border and Immigration Agency to
UK Border Agency (Rebranded tshirts/coats etc) to
the current UKBA uniform which will be replaced next year with the Border Force uniform.

The new uniform is due out around Jan 2013 and I must say it does look pretty smart. As for us looking plod like, the current head of Border Force is a Chief Constable to so i'll let you work that one out! There also re-introducing the flat cap.

Unfortunatly I couldnt find any pictures online, but heres an article - http://www.telegraph...ew-uniform.html

Grey? SS grey? will it just be for border force or will enforcement get it too? Have you got any images?

edit: shpelin

Edited by 159, 09 July 2012 - 11:21 AM.