Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Laser Pen


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
24 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   pottheed

pottheed

    Experienced

  • Members
  • 1,802 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:27 PM

you are on a routine foot patrol when someone from inside a car shines a laser pen into your eyes whilst they are driving past. which leaves you unable to see properly for a few seconds.

Any offences committed?

Edited by pottheed, 20 June 2012 - 10:29 PM.


#2 OFFLINE   AlexTheKnightUK

AlexTheKnightUK

    Training

  • Members
  • 222 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:45 PM

Possibly assault as those pens have the capability of damaging eyes.

#3 OFFLINE   Marty McFly

Marty McFly

    Very Experienced

  • Members
  • 2,379 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:48 PM

in scotland... :bop_scots:

#4 OFFLINE   Burnie

Burnie

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • 5,288 posts

Posted 20 June 2012 - 11:41 PM

Edit: sorry got it the wrong way round.

Assault I agree with as if it leaves you blinded for a few seconds then its of a strength that can cause injury.

Edited by Burnie, 20 June 2012 - 11:43 PM.


#5 OFFLINE   David

David

    -

  • Banned
  • 0 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:12 AM

OK so we're not in Scotland as mentioned above, but how can it be assault?

Assault means you are in fear of sudden and unlawful violence and I don't see how, if you're driving past safe in your car, this can apply in this instance.

#6 OFFLINE   MrKguy

MrKguy

    Karate Kid

  • Banned
  • 890 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:13 AM

OK so we're not in Scotland as mentioned above, but how can it be assault?

Assault means you are in fear of sudden and unlawful violence and I don't see how, if you're driving past safe in your car, this can apply in this instance.


Is there an offence that means you danger a driver?

#7 OFFLINE   wanabe

wanabe

    Experienced

  • Members
  • 1,935 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:15 AM

Is there an offence that means you danger a driver?


The victim was on foot not in a car. ;-)

Edited by wanabe, 21 June 2012 - 09:16 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   MrKguy

MrKguy

    Karate Kid

  • Banned
  • 890 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:20 AM

The victim was on foot not in a car. ;-)


Ow yer, read it wrong :p , Honestly cant think of an offence then.

#9 OFFLINE   wanabe

wanabe

    Experienced

  • Members
  • 1,935 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:26 AM

Would public order section 4a fit?

A person who intentionally causes another harassment, alarm or distress, by using threatening, abusive or insulting words, behaviour, or displays any writing, sign or visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting commits the offence. 

Alarm and distress would be there and it is caused by their behaviour??

Edited by wanabe, 21 June 2012 - 09:28 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   Dave SYP

Dave SYP

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • 5,810 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:27 AM

The penalty for mis-use should be ......it should be seized and inserted as far up................. :new_yes: :rolleyes: :ninja:

#11 OFFLINE   i-plod

i-plod

    Regular User

  • Members
  • 910 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:56 AM

surely you should also consider who else the laser might affect at the point the shined it at you ie other road users, the driver or their vehicle. Offenses would depend on there intent, whether they have considered what affects it could have.

#12 OFFLINE   hampshiresaint

hampshiresaint

    Experienced

  • Members
  • 1,629 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:18 PM

Arrest them for possession of an offensive weapon in a public place and seize the laser pen.

#13 OFFLINE   MrKguy

MrKguy

    Karate Kid

  • Banned
  • 890 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:22 PM

Arrest them for possession of an offensive weapon in a public place and seize the laser pen.


its not a weapon though, but I guess if used as one it is?

#14 OFFLINE   hampshiresaint

hampshiresaint

    Experienced

  • Members
  • 1,629 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:30 PM

its not a weapon though, but I guess if used as one it is?


Offensive weapon : Any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use

If they were delibratly shining it in your eyes then they have the intent to cause injury to that person.

Edited by hampshiresaint, 21 June 2012 - 03:31 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   i-plod

i-plod

    Regular User

  • Members
  • 910 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:44 PM

its not a weapon though, but I guess if used as one it is?


again this goes back to their intent and what you can prove//suspect.

Edited by alexINcant, 21 June 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   David

David

    -

  • Banned
  • 0 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:11 PM

Oops I misread it too. However, it still can't be assault if the perpetrator is in a car driving past - how can he put someone in fear of assault or unlawful violence if they're driving past in a car?

#17 OFFLINE   MindTheGap

MindTheGap

    GLEE Rocks

  • Power User
  • 3,139 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:05 PM

Section 22A Road Traffic Act 1988.

Causing danger to other road users.

They cause the light to be on or over a road or highway in such a way that's dangerous to a reasonable person.


AJ had a job like this earlier this year where the kid shone the laser pointer into his unmarked patrol car (and planes at EMA), let me find a link to the news article!
http://www.burtonmai...es-15062012.htm

A TEENAGER distracted passing motorists by shining a laser into their eyes — but was caught out when he unwittingly targeted an unmarked police car.


Now what I'm saying is that light's coming from the road, reading the scenario again, it COULD have hit another car and dazzled them, so it's likely to be dangerous!

Edited by MikeBrum, 21 June 2012 - 08:35 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   Burnie

Burnie

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • 5,288 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:09 PM

AJ had a job like this earlier this year where the kid shone the laser pointer into his unmarked patrol car (and planes at EMA),


Ah yes, I remember that spate. We went nearly a month with roughly every other day having pilots report laser attack from various locations.

We did wonder whether anyone had been caught when they stopped suddenly

#19 OFFLINE   jvt1

jvt1

    Always Here

  • Members
  • 1,155 posts

Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:38 PM

Not quite a car but still laser related

http://www.whtimes.c..._attack_1_57539

#20 OFFLINE   i-plod

i-plod

    Regular User

  • Members
  • 910 posts

Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:56 AM

Section 22A Road Traffic Act 1988.

Causing danger to other road users.

They cause the light to be on or over a road or highway in such a way that's dangerous to a reasonable person.


AJ had a job like this earlier this year where the kid shone the laser pointer into his unmarked patrol car (and planes at EMA), let me find a link to the news article!
http://www.burtonmai...es-15062012.htm



Now what I'm saying is that light's coming from the road, reading the scenario again, it COULD have hit another car and dazzled them, so it's likely to be dangerous!


Thanks Mike :)

#21 OFFLINE   SkinSte

SkinSte

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • 6,682 posts

Posted 23 June 2012 - 09:33 AM

Offensive weapon : Any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use

If they were delibratly shining it in your eyes then they have the intent to cause injury to that person.


If I shine a torch in your eyes is that assault? What is there difference between a torch and a laser?

Unless the laser itself is of such a strength that it is one which has restrictions on its trade then you'd be laughed at for bringing that in round here.

#22 OFFLINE   BazzaBill

BazzaBill

    On My Way

  • Members
  • 381 posts

Posted 23 June 2012 - 01:30 PM

If I shine a torch in your eyes is that assault? What is there difference between a torch and a laser?

Unless the laser itself is of such a strength that it is one which has restrictions on its trade then you'd be laughed at for bringing that in round here.


Laser pens are much more powerful than a torch. That's why it's an offence to shine a laser pen at an aircraft and endanger lives etc.

It's not that difficult to find examples on the internet of people being arrested for shining laser pens at police. Here's one:

http://www.pafo.co.u...n-assaults.html

"Five people have been arrested on suspicion of assault after two attacks on emergency services staff with a laser device.
A police officer and paramedic were targeted in separate incidents in Reading, Berkshire, earlier this week."

Here's what Surrey police say following an unrelated case last year:

"Surrey Police will deal robustly with any incident involving laser lights, whether it is an assault on another member of the public or a device being pointed at a vehicle."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-13832087

I don't know where you work, but I do know that if I went around in my area shining laser pens in the faces of police officers, then I'd expect to be arrested for assault - and rightfully so.

#23 OFFLINE   David

David

    -

  • Banned
  • 0 posts

Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:31 AM

I don't know where you work, but I do know that if I went around in my area shining laser pens in the faces of police officers, then I'd expect to be arrested for assault - and rightfully so.

I still dispute the 'assault' aspect of this - in England at any rate.

#24 OFFLINE   very special

very special

    Regular User

  • Members
  • 626 posts

Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:01 PM

If all that fails lock them up for being a public nuisance under common law.

#25 OFFLINE   SkinSte

SkinSte

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • 6,682 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:12 AM

Laser pens are much more powerful than a torch. That's why it's an offence to shine a laser pen at an aircraft and endanger lives etc.

It's not that difficult to find examples on the internet of people being arrested for shining laser pens at police. Here's one:

http://www.pafo.co.u...n-assaults.html

"Five people have been arrested on suspicion of assault after two attacks on emergency services staff with a laser device.
A police officer and paramedic were targeted in separate incidents in Reading, Berkshire, earlier this week."

Here's what Surrey police say following an unrelated case last year:

"Surrey Police will deal robustly with any incident involving laser lights, whether it is an assault on another member of the public or a device being pointed at a vehicle."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-13832087

I don't know where you work, but I do know that if I went around in my area shining laser pens in the faces of police officers, then I'd expect to be arrested for assault - and rightfully so.


I could arrest them for attempted murder, or S5 POA, it doesn't mean that that is the offence. What did they get charged with, if anything? I doubt it was assault.

Again the BBC article doesn't provide any definitive answer as it does not give any charges and besides, each situation would be judged on it's own circumstances anyway.

Shinging a light in someone's eyes is unlikely to cause the other to aprehend immediate unlawful violence (although in some circumstances it could be, but as could any other distraction technique).