22 replies to this topic

[Welshy89]

Just wondering what are peoples thoughts of PCSO's role and the PCSO role for the future. Do people think that PCSO's will be given more powers to deal with minor crime, Do you think PCSO's through all forces in England & Wales will be issued with cuffs in the future, and how do you see the role changing.....

Thought it maybe a good topic to chat about :-)

[wanabe]

I can't see the role of PCSO changing what so ever. They won't be issued cuffs or anything else extra to be honest I can see them possibly being phased out all together.

[SM17HY]

The role has rapidly evolved over the 10 or so years and I think it will continue to change - In light of the cuts, PCSOs are constantly being used to deal with things that once upon a time control or supervisors wouldn't even think about sending them to.

My view is that PCSOs won't be 'phased out' any time soon - I think they may eventually standardise the powers they have so each PCSO no matter which force has the same powers and it will then not be up to the CC to decide. As for cuffs there's no reason why they all cant carry cuffs if they are all given the power of detention (Just like North Wales and BTP)

[Radman]

I can't see the role of PCSO changing what so ever. They won't be issued cuffs or anything else extra to be honest I can see them possibly being phased out all together.

You do know that PCSO's get cuffs now right?....

[DS90]

Only in NWP and the BTP (which isn't a H.O force).

[Radman]

Only in NWP and the BTP (which isn't a H.O force).

And?

A PCSO is still a PCSO the legislation is already in place, it just takes a CC with big enough stones to do it.

[Arbitor5]

I think PCSOs are an essenital glue for the Police and the forces local towns / cities. Although it doesn't seem that way all the time you can see that they do sometimes make a difference, even just a smile as they walk past is nice.

[Giraffe]

And?

A PCSO is still a PCSO the legislation is already in place, it just takes a CC with big enough stones to do it.

I think the point is that the vast majority of forces (about 41 of the 43 forces in E&W or thereabouts) don't issue PCSOs with cuffs.

Going back to the other questions that the OP has asked, the role of the PCSO has changed quite a bit since I joined (which was incidentally around the same time the first PCSOs came out of training). In my force we now have 'PSOs' on response, who have the uniform and powers of a PCSO but are there to do all of the response jobs that don't require full police powers. And we also have traffic PCSOs.

I know and work with a lot of PCSOs, and the majority of them are very good at what they do and many would make good police officers too I'm sure. Despite all that, it's still a waste of money (especially given the current state of the nation's finances) that I feel could be better spent on actual police officers.

[BlueBand]

The role is ever changing, or so it would seem.

[rector]

I personally think PCSO's should carry cuff's and be given more powers.

Its all well and good people saying the role is a non confrontational one, but thats in a perfect world and we are far away from that arn't we?

Plus, the role and equipment issued should be standarized across the country because the public are getting mixed messages of what PCSO's can and can't do.

If NW & BTP issue Cuff's then shouldn't everyone else be given the same courtesy?, No matter where a PCSO patrols they are going to deal with exactly the same issues as their colleagues in the aforementioned forces.

Basicly, If you put people in a uniform, with a radio and a stabvest to patrol the streets, there will always be someone who takes exception to their presence and will play on their lack of power to deal with a certain issue, which in turn can cause confrontation and which may result in a PCSO having to restrain someone because (A) they can't run away & (B) thats what the public expects them to do...... So Cuffs are a necessary part of any person who patrols the street in my opinion.....

[wanabe]

I personally think PCSO's should carry cuff's and be given more powers.

Its all well and good people saying the role is a non confrontational one, but thats in a perfect world and we are far away from that arn't we?

Plus, the role and equipment issued should be standarized across the country because the public are getting mixed messages of what PCSO's can and can't do.

If NW & BTP issue Cuff's then shouldn't everyone else be given the same courtesy?, No matter where a PCSO patrols they are going to deal with exactly the same issues as their colleagues in the aforementioned forces.

Basicly, If you put people in a uniform, with a radio and a stabvest to patrol the streets, there will always be someone who takes exception to their presence and will play on their lack of power to deal with a certain issue, which in turn can cause confrontation and which may result in a PCSO having to restrain someone because (A) they can't run away & (B) thats what the public expects them to do...... So Cuffs are a necessary part of any person who patrols the street in my opinion.....

If they are going to be in situations that require cuffs then why now issue them with an ASP and Captor? Hey why not make them police officers?? It's because in the 10+ years they have been around there has been no need to do so.

[Radman]

I personally think PCSO's should carry cuff's and be given more powers.

Its all well and good people saying the role is a non confrontational one, but thats in a perfect world and we are far away from that arn't we?

Plus, the role and equipment issued should be standarized across the country because the public are getting mixed messages of what PCSO's can and can't do.

If NW & BTP issue Cuff's then shouldn't everyone else be given the same courtesy?, No matter where a PCSO patrols they are going to deal with exactly the same issues as their colleagues in the aforementioned forces.

Basicly, If you put people in a uniform, with a radio and a stabvest to patrol the streets, there will always be someone who takes exception to their presence and will play on their lack of power to deal with a certain issue, which in turn can cause confrontation and which may result in a PCSO having to restrain someone because (A) they can't run away & (B) thats what the public expects them to do...... So Cuffs are a necessary part of any person who patrols the street in my opinion.....

^This.

I dont understand why this is so hard to grasp.

[Giraffe]

^This.

I dont understand why this is so hard to grasp.

But maybe the public don't want PCSOs to be restraining people? After 10 years I'm still unconvinced of the point in the role.

[Radman]

But maybe the public don't want PCSOs to be restraining people? After 10 years I'm still unconvinced of the point in the role.

I agree with their views believe it or not but they are here to stay, why continue to cripple them?

I thought the conservative government would've scrapped the role but for whatever reason they've decided to keep them.

[rector]

If they are going to be in situations that require cuffs then why now issue them with an ASP and Captor? Hey why not make them police officers?? It's because in the 10+ years they have been around there has been no need to do so.

We all know that PCSO's are not supposed to be sent to dangerous situations, but we also know that any calm uneventful situation can go into a full blown incident within the blink of an eye.

If PCSO's are not supposed to be sent into those type of situations then why issue them with stab vests?.... The reason is because there is always the chance something could happen and because it hasn't happened yet, dosen't mean its never going to happen.

The public are unpredictable creatures and expecting a PCSO never to be injured in the line of duty ever, is one of those things that will bite someone in the backside one day.

If push comes to shove then I would be more than happy to see a PCSO detain someone using cuffs than see them watch a situation unfold until an over stretched police crew arrive that might take 10 minutes.

It would be interesting to see what the feed back from the NW & BTP Pcso's is regarding the use of cuffs and see if its helped or hindered their role.

Edited by rector, 27 June 2012 - 09:30 AM.

[jvt1]

Anyone think its a possibility that when the cuts get even greater and even more officers are cut that CCs will have little other option than to give PCSOs extra powers to deal with things that previously would have been done by Police Officers?

[BlueLight85]

Most of the PCSO's i've encountered seem more concerned with looking and behaving like police officers, rather than community engagement. If it's going down the route where they get more kit and powers to be like officers then you may as well just hire more police officers. As there would no longer any point in having seperate roles.

[Amz-0]

I don't see why people make such a big fuse about giving PCSO's more power .. Yes there role (in theory) is non-confrontational BUT in the real world MOP don't give a poo about this .. PCSO sometimes get put in sticky situations and them not carrying equipment such as ASP or Spray could put them at risk. I am not one these peoples that's saying give PCSO's full powers, but i am all for enhancing the role because like it or hate it they are here to stay and Police Forces better use them to full potential.

I have hear about stories where PCSO's could attend certain things because they didn't have equipment powers ect, in my opinion this is a waste of a resources that could be deployed in better way. PCSO's do a great job in providing a police presences in communities I can't remember last time I have seen a bobby on beat ... but only a few days ago I saw a PCSO.

[GJB]

In BTP, or at least where I am, our PCSOs are completely independent when they're out and about. They very rarely require a PC to help them, and they're already capable of dealing with 75% of things themselves - and when they do it's only because they need the PC powers or they just need bodies for backup.

PersonallyI think it's silly that we trust them to be out and about (on their own) in uniform with handcuffs and powers, but we don't give them the powers to deal with everything they come across, and we need to tie up and transport another unit just to do something obvious and simple like make an arrest for shoplifting. Imagine a PC having to get a Sergeant to come down to approve an arrest or a use of an everyday power, it's unthinkable.

I don't think 'powers' or 'kit' are what should separate PCSOs from Police Constables. I think it should be ability and purpose.

I personally think it would be better for there two be two levels (or ranks) of PC:

• The front-end PC (for general patrol and first response) who has all the powers to deal with immediate situations but doesn't have the expertise to run the whole job start-to-finish. Think of them having the skill level of an experienced Special, and pay them like PCSOs. They would do statements and intel reports things but not do the full investigation on their own.
  
• A smaller number of expert experienced PCs who can run investigations and make bigger and better decisions, taking charge of situations and outranking the PCs above. Sort of like Senior Constable in some foreign forces. It's not just taking on jobs (like a prisoner/incident support team) but just taking on the proportion of stuff that really needs the extra training and experience.

That system would get rid of the 'not a real police officer' issue that PCSOs often face, and give them ALL the powers, kit and expertise to keep them save and solve situations themselves. Not only that, but it would make a clearer distinction between PC pay grades (not just based on length of service, but on ability+effort), and introduce a rank step that isn't all about supervision.

As a PC, a big chunk of what we do (and what we get called out to) could be done by someone with a PCSO or Special's level of training - just taking details, taking easy statements, making arrests, searching. And a huge chunk of the paperwork side of things is actually just administration (making simple calls, taking statements) rather than proper investigation. We could consolidate a lot of the expert/specialist PC work into a smaller number of Senior PCs able to get fully stuck into the investigations and with the extra training for interviews and more difficult cases etc.

[Nim]

Personally I would like the extra power to search for drugs - cannabis in particular. I can search for alcohol and cigarettes (bizarrely PCs can't..) but when I come across some people having a spliff or I can smell cannabis I have to call for a PC to search them (s23) even if it's just a spliff, even more so when it's a busy Sat night and I don't want to pull resources away from other jobs or areas where they might be needed.

[Merlin820]

After 10 years I'm still unconvinced of the point in the role.

I'm afraid I have to agree on this point.

[Waddle]

So people want the PCSO role to be enhanced? Maybe they will end up taking over the roles SC's play in the greater scheme of things....oh hold on that would then make them PC's ...wouldn't it?

[BlueBand]

Alot of forces are increasing the powers and taskings for their PCSO's, giving them the remaining (if they don't already have all of them) powers to exercise whilst on duty.

On a sidenote to this, I understand BTP PCSO's have cuffs to control persons next to a live track and I see the need for cuffs being issued, but I don't think cuffs are needed for the majority of home office force PCSO's. Realisticaly I know that forces wouldn't give PCSO's a s5 firearm (despite it being a lawfull posession) but having PAVA would be a fantastic tool to ensure the safety of the PCSO, even if it's to aid a "tactical withdrawal" from a violent person.

I know we could go on about how "the role of a PCSO is non-confrontational" but in reality, PCSO's are out their in uniform and things happen out on the streets. Forces are already aware of this, evidence of such presented in the deliverance of defensive tactics training and this issue of body armour. PCSO's wouldn't need any of this if there was no confrontation surely?