36 replies to this topic

[Marty McFly]

Drivers face £90 on the spot fine and three points for being in the wrong lane or tailgating

• Fines for speeding and mobile phone use at wheel will also increase by 50 per cent
  
• Critics say new 'draconian' measures will pile more pressure on families

Motorists caught middle-lane hogging, tailgating or using the wrong lane on a round-about could soon be handed a £90 spot fine and three penalty points.

Police currently enforce most careless-driving offences by issuing a warning with no further action, but government plans revealed yesterday will give them the power to issue fixed-penalty tickets.

Poor lane discipline, driving too fast for the road or weather conditions and ignoring signs could all be punished.


Punishment: Drivers could face £90 fines simply for being in the middle lane when the inside lane is clear

Motorists will be fined only if they are caught by a police officer – cameras will not be used to enforce the new regime.

In other moves, fines for offences such as speeding, using a mobile phone behind the wheel and not wearing a seat belt will increase by 50 per cent from £60 to £90.

Critics described the changes as a return to the 'war on the motorist' by a government intent on using drivers as a 'cash cow'. They also warned of a string of appeals by drivers who feel they are being unfairly targeted.


The AA said: 'Unlike speeding enforcement, where there is a reasonably clear measure of law-breaking, careless-driving enforcement is much more subjective.
'That increases the chance of “incidents” at the scene.'

Hugh Bladon, of the Association of British Motorists pressure group, said: 'A 50 per cent increase is excessive.
'People are struggling to pay their mortgage and feed their families. We shouldn't be piling more pressure on them. No-one is a saint behind the wheel. Anyone can make an inadvertent error of judgment.


'It is all stick and no carrot – it is far too draconian.'

Details of the changes were outlined by Road Safety Minister Mike Penning, who said a more flexible approach to careless driving was needed because the current enforcement system took too long and was inefficient.

If the changes are introduced, the income generated from speeding fines alone is expected to soar from £60million to £90million.

About 200,000 other fixed-penalty offences – such as using a hand-held phone, and red-light and pedestrian-crossing offences – are set to raise an extra £6million. This is before the new £90 fines for careless driving are added – a sum the Department for Transport says is 'an unknown'.

Ministers insist the fines will be for less serious incidents of careless driving, will make roads safer and cut the cost of 'overly bureaucratic' prosecutions.

Police will have the discretion to offer drivers the option of attending a road safety course in place of points.

Last year just over 26,000 people were prosecuted for careless or inconsiderate driving, according to Ministry of Justice figures.

'There's a risk of motorists feeling picked on and being milked like a cash cow.'

The consultation paper says the fixed-penalty fines would replace costly court cases, adding: 'The poor driving might have been injudicious overtaking, following too close behind the preceding vehicle, turning into too small a gap in traffic, or attempting to pass a vehicle on the nearside.'

Motorists will have the option of going through the courts if they contest the offence.

Robert Gifford, executive director of the influential parliamentary advisory council on transport safety, gave a 'cautious welcome' to the moves.

But he noted: 'Unless there is a significant increase in policing to enforce this, there's a risk that the seriousness of careless-driving offences will be diluted.

'And at a time of cuts in police budgets and reductions in dedicated roads policing, increases in visible enforcement seem a little unlikely.'

He added: 'There's a risk of motorists feeling picked on and being milked like a cash cow. Many drivers may ask: “Why are we law-abiding motorists having to pay for the Government's austerity measures?”'

Read more: http://www.dailymail...tailgating.html

[fence]

I can not wait for this! I use the motorway every day and the amount of idiots driving in the wrong lane really annoys me, not only is it annoying it causes MORE traffic if you middle lane hog cars have to go around you therefore making the motorway 2 lanes instead of 3.

If anyone has ever driven in France/Spain they will understand, over there their lane discipline is very good as soon as they overtake the sit in lane 1. (shame they have a very high RTC rate though)

Edited by Cheetah, 14 June 2012 - 10:38 PM.
Profanity removed

[IndiaTango]

I can not wait for this! I use the motorway every day and the amount of idiots driving in the wrong lane really annoys me, not only is it annoying it causes MORE traffic if you middle lane hog cars have to go around you therefore making the motorway 2 lanes instead of 3.

I completely agree with you there. Although as i'm on L plates, this doesn't affect me too much. Tailgaters on the other hand really frustrate me.

Earlier today I was riding through a village with a 30mph speed limit. I also believe the speed cameras are the average speed over the distance too. I had this huge 4x4 right up me the whole length and then when we hit the 50mph zone he just stayed at around 40 :S

I also don't understand the comment about extra pressure on families. If you drive safely then you won't have any problems.

[Lucas North]

One flaw in this brilliant plan...

...where are all the new traffic cops going to come from to enforce all of this?

[phlopip]

Follow the rules= keep your money. Not a hard thing to comprehend really is it?

[Peteee]

Good thing my personal car doesn't have blue lights or I'd never get where I was going when this comes in

[MerseyLLB]

Not a fan of this. Careless driving is essentially a subjective test and therefore a summons is (IMO) the most appropriate way of dealing with things. If you make something ticketable, it increases the likelihood of a bobby using it incorrectly. Just look at S5!

[Shogy1]

Not a fan of this. Careless driving is essentially a subjective test and therefore a summons is (IMO) the most appropriate way of dealing with things. If you make something ticketable, it increases the likelihood of a bobby using it incorrectly. Just look at S5!

They can still appeal though if they feel it has been issued incorrectly.

[Radman]

They can still appeal though if they feel it has been issued incorrectly.

Indeed they can but how many will?

Alot of people will end up paying the fine for an easy life and will be done with it. The burden of proof for officers will also drop to rock bottom as it's an easy disposal for them (just like most other ticket jobs - I'm sure we all know officers out there like this.)

I say send'em to court if you think words of advise aren't enough, this does feel like a cop out in a way - motorists are easy targets in my humble opinion.

Thankfully I don't with much road traffic in BTP.

[SC Ben]

One flaw in this brilliant plan...

...where are all the new traffic cops going to come from to enforce all of this?

I don't get why there needs to be any extra. In theory, it's the same offences just with higher fines... And the wrong lane and tailgaiting will just been seen by any officer and hopefully dealt with

[Morse]

Indeed they can but how many will?

Alot of people will end up paying the fine for an easy life and will be done with it. The burden of proof for officers will also drop to rock bottom as it's an easy disposal for them (just like most other ticket jobs - I'm sure we all know officers out there like this.)

I say send'em to court if you think words of advise aren't enough, this does feel like a cop out in a way - motorists are easy targets in my humble opinion.

Thankfully I don't with much road traffic in BTP.

Its the same as any other ticket. If you don't agree then wait 28 days, don't pay the ticket and see if you get a court date. That is more than enough time to get advice, assess the circumstances and make a decision. In the grand scale this is a minor traffic offence. Its hardly a cop out. The fact that in England people running around with offensive weapons sometimes walk out the door with nothing more than a caution is a cop out.

The courts don't want bogged down with petty s3 offences. This is a great idea and the sooner it comes into fruition the better.

[Radman]

Its the same as any other ticket. If you don't agree then wait 28 days, don't pay the ticket and see if you get a court date. That is more than enough time to get advice, assess the circumstances and make a decision. In the grand scale this is a minor traffic offence. Its hardly a cop out. The fact that in England people running around with offensive weapons sometimes walk out the door with nothing more than a caution is a cop out.

The courts don't want bogged down with petty s3 offences. This is a great idea and the sooner it comes into fruition the better.

It is a cop out though, as i've said bobbies WILL use it as a dumbed down means of disposal, just as other forms of tickets are used now.

Whats wrong with reporting someone for process?

I agree with you morse that its out of order people walk away from courts for carrying offensive weapons, assaults, theft ect it is a cop out and the English justice system is nothing short of a joke at times, infact its one of the biggest frustrations in the job.

It says alot about the system when a person gets less for ABH then a railway byelaw offence.

[Morse]

I think there is a similar argument for many tickets particular the asbo ticket. I don't think it should be avoided however on the basis that it will be misused. If a cop witnesses a driving action which he deems to be a s3 then this method of disposal should be an option. A higher end s3 should obviously be sent to the court but like any other ticket these will be audited by a Sgt to ensure due process is complied with. I think over time these will have a positive effect on driving. How many people drive 30 miles up the middle lane worried about going to court. I would suggest probably none. Less paperwork is also a major bonus as the current cop out in the current set up is the obligatory "words of advice" which mean nothing.

[David]

Though as has been said, where are all the extra police coming from, it's been a long time coming. I will say it again: if people followed the Highway Code virtually all of our traffic problems would be solved overnight. It's due to people's selfish behaviour and poor driving skills that we now need to be doing this: if people drove according to laws and the Code, they'd not be fined!

All that said, it is easy to be in the wrong roundabout lane at times by accident, we've all done it in unfamiliar towns/areas.

[caveat_civis]

No new offences are being created, the Daily Fail is just listing things that could be classified as careless or inconsiderate.
The point is that they're increasing the fine from £60 to £90, and switching to using FPNs, which is fine by me.
However, I doubt that it will really make any difference to Average Joe's driving - for starters most people are blissfully unaware of what the penalties are, or even what offences exist; they just drive as they think is acceptable and hope that they aren't doing anything that would get them pulled over.

Edited by caveat_civis, 15 June 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[Shogy1]

All that said, it is easy to be in the wrong roundabout lane at times by accident, we've all done it in unfamiliar towns/areas.

Yes but then they should be following that lane, find somewhere to safely turn round then go back and take the proper turning. Not as many do and just cut across other traffic.

All that said, it is easy to be in the wrong roundabout lane at times by accident, we've all done it in unfamiliar towns/areas.

Yes but then they should be following that lane, find somewhere to safely turn round then go back and take the proper turning. Not as many do and just cut across other traffic.

[David]

Oh I agree Shogy and if I find myself in the wrong lane I do follow it and then turn round where I can. Hence I am glad with this supposed crackdown which won't happen!

[JuDgE mEnTaL]

look forward to seeing how this improves driving standards.


my pet hates with other motorists:

• using a mobile without a handsfree device
  
• middle lane bandits
  
• cutting up the outside then trying to dib in at the junction/on the slip road.

We all have lapses in concentration but when you're driving along the M25 where there are 4 lanes that can be used and a person insists on sitting in lane 3 of those 4 yet the 2 inner ones are empty it makes my blood boil that i then have to traverse 3 lanes in order to overtake said individual!

Edited by JuDgE mEnTaL, 15 June 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[SBG]

So what about the story of Police waste less time in court, when dealing with traffic infrindgements.

It is very simple if you would fail your driving test doing what you are doing then dont do it - no problem.

Still 10 points for getting strapped family budgets into the story!

Edited by SBG, 15 June 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[i-plod]

I cant see this changing anything other than the revenue generated to the Gvt will go up. The amout of people I see on there phones on the way to work is huge and these laws that are already in place havent stopped them. The only time this would stop it is if a Traffic car is actually going up the motorway then you will most likely get a bubble of cars around him doing 69mph and staying in the left lane....

You can already deal with tailgating its not like its legal and accepted again this will only work when in the vacinity of a cop car....

Edited by alexINcant, 15 June 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Kewstu]

Some times when your driving somewhere you are not familair with you feel extra pressure to get into the correct lanes.

I would be very annoyed if I was given a ticket for been in the wrong lane at a roundabout if I noticed the (say) first exit was mine and I was in the second lane, I wouldn't cut across the traffic but I personally would drive around the roundabout and take the correct lane as it came along again - but this reads that I would be given a ticket for careless driving.

Does this legislation also go against Officers who are not on shouts, ie the ones who cut you up on roundabouts, don't indicate intentions on motorways and also SIT IN THE MIDDLE LANE at 60MPH! -- guess not

[victor-bravoHQ]

Not a fan of this. Careless driving is essentially a subjective test and therefore a summons is (IMO) the most appropriate way of dealing with things. If you make something ticketable, it increases the likelihood of a bobby using it incorrectly. Just look at S5!

I agree, but think this new option of disposal is a good idea for minor offences. However, the problem you mention of poor evidence should be solved at the Sgt stage where tickets are reviewed to ensure all necessary evidence in there. All my tickets get MG11s and full evidence, even the £30 tickets. If this isn't happening and tickets are presented with poor evidence they should be either be cancelled or the officer concerned does it properly.

[Shogy1]

I would be very annoyed if I was given a ticket for been in the wrong lane at a roundabout if I noticed the (say) first exit was mine and I was in the second lane, I wouldn't cut across the traffic but I personally would drive around the roundabout and take the correct lane as it came along again - but this reads that I would be given a ticket for careless driving.

Why is that? I cant see where it reads anything like that. The example you gave is the correct way to do it. I cannot see any police officer giving anyone a ticket for that.

[Cuddles]

Personally I would rather offences like using a mobile phone while driving received 6 points as I have had the odd occasion where drivers have been more bothered about the points than the money. Even had a few offering to pay double to avoid the points... Errrrrm, nooooooo...

[Rocket]

If safety really was the primary concern then points would be increased and not the fine.