50 replies to this topic

[Lucas North]

PS.com Emigration Project!

[MerseyLLB]

Would people please refrain from posting any more good news stories about policing elsewhere. It makes me sick with jealousy.

[MacGregor]

I'm not a champion for the US prison system, it's horrendously flawed in some respects, but the sentences that are imposed and the conditions these sentences are served under are far tougher. A prisoner in "Tent City" in Maracopa County can't threaten victims, because they don't have access to Facebook and the like. Why should it be any different in the UK!?

Prison is a punnishment, something which seems to have been forgotten to some extent in the British legal system.

Prison is not the panacea you hold it up to be. Their sentencing does little to prevent reoffending (because let's face it, most people in prison will be released at some point). Why should we replicate a system that leads to more crime? Why should I have to put up with more crime to satisfy people like you?

[Peteee]

Prison is not the panacea you hold it up to be. Their sentencing does little to prevent reoffending (because let's face it, most people in prison will be released at some point). Why should we replicate a system that leads to more crime? Why should I have to put up with more crime to satisfy people like you?

So what do you suggest to prevent reoffending instead of prison?

[MacGregor]

So what do you suggest to prevent reoffending instead of prison?

Did you even bother to read my posts?

You've taken what I have said and twisted it. No where did I say we shouldn't send people to prison. I don't, however, see any benefit in sending people to prison and having them sit in their cell all day doing nothing. If a prisoner goes in with a drug habit and no skills then comes out with a drug habit and no skills why are we so surprised when they reoffend?

[Peteee]

Did you even bother to read my posts?

You've taken what I have said and twisted it. No where did I say we shouldn't send people to prison. I don't, however, see any benefit in sending people to prison and having them sit in their cell all day doing nothing. If a prisoner goes in with a drug habit and no skills then comes out with a drug habit and no skills why are we so surprised when they reoffend?

You said that prison isn't great I simply wondered if you had any better ideas, calm down

[MacGregor]

You said that prison isn't great I simply wondered if you had any better ideas, calm down

Prison can work if it is done properly. The Great British public seem to love the idea of putting people in a cell and forgetting about them without considering that it isn't half as effective as they would like to believe. Frankly, I don't care what we do with criminals as long as it is effective at reducing reoffending, I'd advocate sending them to the moon if it worked. Having somebody sitting in prison for ten years doing nothing just isn't effective so why do it?

[Peteee]

Prison can work if it is done properly. The Great British public seem to love the idea of putting people in a cell and forgetting about them without considering that it isn't half as effective as they would like to believe. Frankly, I don't care what we do with criminals as long as it is effective at reducing reoffending, I'd advocate sending them to the moon if it worked. Having somebody sitting in prison for ten years doing nothing just isn't effective so why do it?

Fair enough.

Edited by Peteee, 15 June 2012 - 01:00 AM.

[Jeebs]

Prison is not the panacea you hold it up to be. Their sentencing does little to prevent reoffending (because let's face it, most people in prison will be released at some point). Why should we replicate a system that leads to more crime? Why should I have to put up with more crime to satisfy people like you?

From the statistics I can find very quickly (they are from the BBC) 50% of British prisoners reoffend at some point while 60% of US inmates reoffend. It's not really a massive difference given the US suffers with far more drastic issues and cultures than us, gang violence and firearms related crime for example. You have to remember we lack these two massive influences in the UK in most areas outside of London, Manchester and Liverpool, and even then it's tame in comparison.

Are you an SC/PC by any chance, or just a civi? The "people like you" comment irks me because I have the opinions I do based on what I have seen in my service so far, magistrates and judges seem reluctant to hand out punishments that fit the crime and instead to veer towards community retribution and no custodial sentences for all but the most serious crimes, in most cases they are completly disproportionate to the crime. All you need to do is trawl though this news section to see what I'm talking about.

Edited by Jeebs, 15 June 2012 - 06:19 AM.

[TroyTempest]

If they're inside, they're not outside committing crime. Reoffending rates could be 100% for all I care, it's a meaningless Boolean value. A burglar who comes out and gets nicked for D&D just became a reoffender.

We *know* that some offenders account for a vast amount of crime in a given area. A chap a friend arrested, in the act of burglary was convicted. As a result burglary and theft from motor vehicles went down by 80%!

Reoffending is one thing, cutting crime is another.

[Young_wanna_be_cop]

Erm. They are.

Are they? Oh brilliant, glad we cleared that up then.

Correct - and thats from 'David Copperfield' who wrote wasting police time before becoming a canadian PC and apparently he loves it (at least according to the prologue of Wasting more police time)

Mr Copperfield says it so it must be true. You will also find blogs from officers who have moved to find the "dream" is not what it is portrayed to be for a variety of reasons. Again, I stand by the fact that if you believe that places like Canada and Australia have fantastic criminal justice systems, that criminals get harsh sentences for committing crime, the cops are actually respected by criminals and that there is next to no paperwork then you are looking at these countries through rose tinted spectacles or are just naive.

[David]

As regulars on here know I am advocate of strong sentencing but in a strict regime such as in military prisons. Clean, warm, humane but with rigid discipline and routine. Firstly, discipline is lacking in so many criminals' lives and this might teach some - particularly self-discipline.

Rather than allow all these computers and TV's, inmates in the glasshouse had to prove their worth to earn a radio for the weekend - the competition was tough. They had to clean their own areas, and boy were their areas clean.

I'd also like to point out that all the while criminals are inside, they aren't offending outside. But none of that is any good without some sort of rehabilitation. For service prisoners this isn't so much of an issue, but for the civilian population it can be. I would advocate good basic education (but not taking degrees at my expense) so that on release those that have difficulty, have a level of self-discipline if not literacy. That doesn't come from allowing them to sit on computers and computer games for hours, nor from gyms better equipped than some schools.

[ococircusboy]

Or how about 4 blank walls, a toilet, a sink and that's it. And bring in a chain gang - job done.
Your 6 years for burglary just became 6 years of hard labour so you can forget going on facebook or playing your PS3.

[BigCopSmallTown]

I was listening to Gordon Ramsey on Radio 2 this morning on my way to work talking about his latest series filmed in Brixton nick. He mentioned that in a previous encounter he found a talented chef in a YOI so gave him training and a job on release only for him to re-offend. It staggers me that someone would get such an opportunity (not many 3 star michelin chefs would take an ex con on) to throw it all away and head back to the nick. Something, somewhere, isnt working in our CJS

[Dave SYP]

I'm wholly with David on this one. If you incarcerate anyone for a period of time, they should be doing some constructive work. Sewing mail bags, laundry, general cleaning, gardening, etc. used to be the thing years ago. I am sure that a not-for-profit industry could be created to run in tandem with prisons, so that their time is served properly and not wasted. The 'punishment' for failing to work would have to be an increase in sentence, bare cell and solitary.

FITCHETT obviously sees himself as a little gangster with a fan club. I am certain he will 'come again', 'and again' and I would hope if he does that he will be given the same attention time after time until his sentences increase and he is forgotten. What a vile, Neanderthal type.

[XRegulator]

I guarantee the individual concerned would find his life extremely difficult under the Japanese penal system!!! I invite anyone to trawl the internet and read about the harsh conditions prisoners can face in Japanese jails. It can make for quite uncomfortable reading.....

[David]

Until water companies were privatised a good idea would have been for prisoners to have constructed a national grid of water so that we should no longer have drought, but Id' be against this now where private companies are involved.

[Marty McFly]

Until water companies were privatised a good idea would have been for prisoners to have constructed a national grid of water so that we should no longer have drought, but Id' be against this now where private companies are involved.

but then we'd have to share our fine, abundant, scottish water and quite possibly actually have to pay for how much water we use instead of one relatively small charge in the council tax bill regardless of how much we use...

i can see salmond having a field day with that idea; "First our oil, now our water!"

[Dave SYP]

Get them building a deselination plant in the Outer Hebrides somewhere then you can have it for free!

[TROOPER8555]

just under whelmed again

[MacGregor]

The argument that criminals can't commit crime in prison is of course a valid one but a little bit of a cop out I feel. The vast majority of prisoners will be released at some point and what then? Unless we lock everybody convicted of even the most minor crime up for the rest of their life

From the statistics I can find very quickly (they are from the BBC) 50% of British prisoners reoffend at some point while 60% of US inmates reoffend. It's not really a massive difference given the US suffers with far more drastic issues and cultures than us, gang violence and firearms related crime for example. You have to remember we lack these two massive influences in the UK in most areas outside of London, Manchester and Liverpool, and even then it's tame in comparison.

Yeah, a 10% difference is nothing right.

Just goes to show that harsh sentencing in the US isn't the deterrent you wish it was in any case.

The "people like you" comment irks me because I have the opinions I do based on what I have seen in my service so far, magistrates and judges seem reluctant to hand out punishments that fit the crime and instead to veer towards community retribution and no custodial sentences for all but the most serious crimes, in most cases they are completly disproportionate to the crime. All you need to do is trawl though this news section to see what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry if it irks you but I stand by my comments. It seems you don't care about what is actually effective at reducing crime, just what makes you feel better. Why send somebody to prison for ten years if you can have them out as productive members of society in five? (People who pose a risk to society should be kept in prison for as long as it is deemed necessary of course). Proportionality is relative remember.

If you send somebody to prison for ten years for housebreaking and have them sit and do nothing all day then what do you think will happen when they come out? If you send them to prison for half that time and have them do something productive (maybe help them kick their drug habit, teach them some skills etc) then they are much less likely to reoffend. That is why I do not believe that a long sentence is the be all and end all of the justice system, what a prisoner does whilst incarcerated is far more important in my opinion.

[Lucas North]

Nature vs Nuture. Is someone born a criminal or are they brought up to be one, due to surrounding and circumstance. Either way, we ALL know THOSE nominals on the wall, who will ALWAYS be slags.

Rehabilitation can work, but only in the context of "an alcoholic." Alcoholics will only ever give up the sauce if they help themselves - well in the same way, crims will only ever give up a life of crime if they help themselves.

Rehabilitation for the few, military-grade prisons for the rest.

[Rocket]

I have not seen confirmation that this offender accessed facebook to make his threats public via sanctioned internet access.

[Stratos]

Are they? Oh brilliant, glad we cleared that up then.




Mr Copperfield says it so it must be true. You will also find blogs from officers who have moved to find the "dream" is not what it is portrayed to be for a variety of reasons. Again, I stand by the fact that if you believe that places like Canada and Australia have fantastic criminal justice systems, that criminals get harsh sentences for committing crime, the cops are actually respected by criminals and that there is next to no paperwork then you are looking at these countries through rose tinted spectacles or are just naive.

Nobody said that Canada and Australia have perfect (or even "fantastic") police and criminal justice systems though. But there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest they are (or can be) better than us in some areas.

[MikeBrum]

I have not seen confirmation that this offender accessed facebook to make his threats public via sanctioned internet access.

Thought inmates traffic was logged and keywords flagged up.

My guess is the future's bright and his rear was Orange...