76 replies to this topic

[MrKguy]

It's your attitude towards "deserve" that makes you look like a twat (the mods have cleared that word it seems). It's invalid when it's not your position to set the standard. By all means decry the standard (I have) but to suggest that someone is undeserving when they're getting a grip of their own personal fitness makes you look like a total throbber.

As for the ACFT, what cap badge weight did you carry last time you did it?

I dont get that ACFT but if your referring to the run I was carrying my Large rucksack weighing about.. hmm. 9-10 kilos, and I was 15 ( make that 16 it was during my silver duke of Edinburgh ) at the time. Now I would do better.

Edited by MrKguy, 12 June 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[TroyTempest]

I dont get that ACFT but if your referring to the run I was carrying my Large rucksack weighing about.. hmm. 9-10 kilos, and I was 15 ( make that 16 it was during my silver duke of Edinburgh ) at the time. Now I would do better.

So that'd be a no then. Cheers

I can assure you that carrying fighting order at 25 kilos plus another couple of kilos of water and your rifle at another 4.5 in a forced, squadded march up hill and down dale at a pace of 6.5 km/h isn't like carrying 10 kilos and going for a bimble on your silver DOE at whatever-pace-you-fancy. You may or may not have to wear your combat helmet depending on how much of an arrse the DS are being, weather the rules say you need to or not.

[MrKguy]

So that'd be a no then. Cheers

I can assure you that carrying fighting order at 25 kilos plus another couple of kilos of water and your rifle at another 4.5 in a forced, squadded march up hill and down dale at a pace of 6.5 km/h isn't like carrying 10 kilos and going for a bimble on your silver DOE at whatever-pace-you-fancy. You may or may not have to wear your combat helmet depending on how much of an arrse the DS are being, weather the rules say you need to or not.

Your talk utter garbage you know that? You ask ME how long I can run and I tell you and then you say at my own pace? can you see what your saying? makes no sense, also you say I cant say people's stuff are bad when you just did it? over 70% of the USA could not run a mile with 10 kilo , that is not easy like it or not. and how old were you when you did it? dont get cocky with me and give me some stupid remark as you wont like this argument.

Btw I guessed the america thing because the united states health department thing said that 30% are obese in america, so how many are overweight and unfit? has to be a lot?

Edited by MrKguy, 12 June 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[CmdKeen]

MrKguy - who despite the abandonment of the negative point system is still sitting on -56 reputation.

You do get to call people "bad" at fitness for a score of 5.something (unless they're an over 50 woman) - you don't get to say they don't deserve to be a cop.

If you want to be mean to people about fitness, especially if you want to invoke military standards, then go on over to ARRSE and discuss it there. You'll be back in seconds having learnt a few new phrases and been shown what real fitness is. Meanwhile we'll continue demonstrating leadership here by coaching people to better themselves on the fitness threads.

PS. 9-10 kilos is pish for boasting about weight. A police officer can easily end up carrying more kit than that and be expected to be on their feet for 12+ hours.

[David]

MrKGuy I have to say that you are coming across as incredibly arrogant. Who are you to demand that the fitness test for the police is nine? Can you give any reasons as to why?

Your own health and fitness is important to you, well that's good and your own personal belief. We can all take more care of our own health and take responsibility for our own actions, after all. But others don't have the same feelings as you and so long as they can pass a minimum fitness as agreed by police forces for valid reasons as I have given, they are happy. And be aware, not all of us are sporty let alone runners. Bear in mind that policing is not all about running: one might be able to run to an incident in half the time others might but the whole thing falls apart if you can't actually deal with the situation when you get there. I met a fast officer a few years ago, all they did on arrival was inflame a situation that could have been defused with some sound advice and mere presence.

You've gone on and on about how fast and hard you can run with loads on your back a la the army, one presumes. Well, that's great, but we don't happen to be in the Armed Forces and I'd like to know if you are.

[Rocket]

The way this thread has gone is a shame because the OP posted about the improvement in fitness and yet still gets slated by a limited number of posters for not being fit enough even though the achieved level is all that is needed to pass the fitness test.

[CmdKeen]

Good stuff David.

It is worth pointing out that there is one area that officers do undergo regularly that could be improved (perhaps some do it already?) to feature a testing scenario that even if not failable would provide food for thought and an impetus to get fitter:

Work our your force's average response times for an urgent assistance shout by region and then during Officer Safety Training get recruits to try and "fight" for that long. It's knackering - but should help expose the reality of the situation. That is where fitness is important - its rare but could well save your life or someone else's. It would also help focus minds on the reality of the "inflaming situation" that David mentioned - that backup can be a long ways away at times and not getting into a fight is much better.

I don't really care about how fast people can run, I do worry when cops start wheezing during an OST warmup, or when the strength of their baton blows starts to fade after the first few.

[MrKguy]

I am sorry If I came across as rude, I was not trying to slate anybody, but if you read my post earlier you cans see I clearly said health goes above force policy and it is more important than a number, also is Scottish level not 9?

also about the - score, if you want to know the mods put a lot of that one because I misused the system once, it is not totally real for posts reasons.

PS. 9-10 kilos is pish for boasting about weight. A police officer can easily end up carrying more kit than that and be expected to be on their feet for 12+ hours.

Can I just say that 9-10 Kilos at 16 for 50 miles a day for a week is not a little and exceeded a police officers hours, how do I know? 3 officers did it with me and I was chatting to them the whole way.

[CmdKeen]

Can I just say that 9-10 Kilos at 16 for 50 miles a day for a week is not a little and exceeded a police officers hours, how do I know? 3 officers did it with me and I was chatting to them the whole way.

Interesting given you said this was your Silver DofE. Which according to the interwebs is a 24-32km hike over 3 days and 2 nights...

I am sorry If I came across as rude, I was not trying to slate anybody, but if you read my post earlier you cans see I clearly said health goes above force policy and it is more important than a number, also is Scottish level not 9?

Saying someone does not deserve to become a police officer is rude and slating them. Hence the reaction on here. Contrition is important, not just saying sorry, you need to understand why you were wrong in the first place.

Scotland has actual age / gender based levels for its requirements - though this usually is in the form of a 1.5 mile run. The original poster would have failed a fitness test in Scotland (his profile has 18 and male). However the Specials don't (to my knowledge) currently have this test, and post probation it isn't required. Even then failing the fitness test doesn't mean you "don't deserve" to be a police officer - it means you need to go away and work on your fitness.

Deserving implies some kind of moral failure on the part of the person. Working on your fitness test to the point at which you can pass it is not a bad thing. Had he come on here spouting off about how fit he was and how he deserved to be a cop then yes, he would deserve to be put in his place. As you deserve to be.

[David]

Work our your force's average response times for an urgent assistance shout by region and then during Officer Safety Training get recruits to try and "fight" for that long. It's knackering - but should help expose the reality of the situation.

Part of the 5.4, CmdKeen. As I say, it wasn't a figure plucked out of the air, but the average amount of energy expended on any given situation, including a fight. I passed the 5.4 which wasn't easy, but I found the two minute timed 'fight' rather more tiring, and that was against someone not fighting back but stood there with the punch bag.

I am sorry If I came across as rude, I was not trying to slate anybody, but if you read my post earlier you cans see I clearly said health goes above force policy and it is more important than a number, also is Scottish level not 9?

So, what are your reasons for demanding 9, to say nothing of insinuating that those incapable of reaching that are somehow unworthy or inferior?

And - not that it makes any difference - are you in the armed forces or not?

[MrKguy]

. Meanwhile we'll continue demonstrating leadership here by coaching people to better themselves on the fitness threads.

Again sorry I have to talk about this, I like to encourage but as I said before when clearly see something that is honestly, not that good unless they expected to get that, needs better encouragement, 9 month training to attain nearly minimum bleep test level is not good enough. Also that thing I said about " deserves to be an officer " was a bit stupid, I did not actually mean it I just said it, remember I am only 16 and actually have a valid view and can express it on a POLICE forum, I am not exactly a bad person for saying somebody needs to improve big time am I? Where would we be if we just said, " nice improvement! " all the time and got no criticism just lies?. I surely would have never learnt to read at the age of NINE and now attained good GCSE English results and can read faster than my peers if my parents and schools never told me I was learning to slow...

Dont defeat how important getting harsh feedback is in life, I am 16 and I have already learnt this, I expect you people lecturing me already do no this but are just defending a friend. But to the OP, I am sorry if I offended you but If I was you I would start trying to get double figures on the test, for your health, job and fitness among other things.

Interesting given you said this was your Silver DofE. Which according to the interwebs is a 24-32km hike over 3 days and 2 nights...

You think im lying? Fine by mean. I got nothing to prove.

Edited by MrKguy, 12 June 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[tdcist]

During my OST the other day we were told we had to do the bleep test again, and this time aim for 8.1, as that equates to 30-40 seconds of full on fighting excursion.

I can run 2 miles in 16-17 minutes, but still only reached 8.4 on the bleep test...
The secret is getting pace and breathing correctly, I am going to try again as I believe I can get higher if I breathe correctly and pace myself better.

However good on the OP for improving, keep it up, go for a run twice or so a week, and push yourself... I found that once I realised to push myself through the "barrier" where I was getting tired and feeling pain, I started improving much quicker!

[David]

Also that thing I said about " deserves to be an officer " was a bit stupid, I did not actually mean it I just said it, remember I am only 16

Ohhh I see. 16? That's new on me at least. So 16 and you know it all? How about you show a bit more respect to those of us being policing since you were just out of nappies and put your views forward in a reasonable way? You want to be treated as an adult? Then behave like one and don't tell people, perhaps some like me at nearly 50, what they should or should not be doing or what their levels of fitness should be.

I am not exactly a bad person for saying somebody needs to improve big time am I?

No, but there are ways of putting it and if your instructor came up to you and told you you were useless and your improvement wasn't as good as his then I think you'd be peeved too. Especially if it turned out to be a 12 year old.

Where would we be if we just said, " nice improvement! " all the time and got no criticism just lies?

There are ways of saying things. Take it from a trained mentor and on the job trainer.

I surely would have never learnt to read at the age of NINE and now attained good GCSE English results and can read faster than my peers if my parents and schools never told me I was learning to slow...

NINE, hey? Well I was reading before I even got to school at 5, what do you say to that? Were you slow? Weren't you very good? Or do my strengths, perhaps, lie in different areas to yours which is physical activity? And oh, for your information, I achieved English Language 'O' level.

But to the OP, I am sorry if I offended you but If I was you I would start trying to get double figures on the test, for your health, job and fitness among other things.

That's what he was doing until you came along and told him he was rubbish compared to you. Besides, what he does is his affair and if he's worked hard enough to pass the bleep as it stands, that's all that matter to him - or you.

[MrKguy]

When did I EVER say I was better than him... dont put words in my mouth. Dont be so stupid about me being 16, Who were you at 16? We all make mistakes and say wrong things but 1 thing I have learnt in yet short life is AGE , counter popular belief does NOT grant wisdom or intellect, or even respect anymore. Respect your elders they say, well treat me with some and you will get more back. Calling me a 12 year old is not the way to go.. REMEMBER who the future of this country is, when your retired remember who is going to be policing, Now I see why people my age hate the police, half of the act like right lunatics sometimes... Makes me wonder why I want to be one.

Please explain to me in detail why a 16 year old cant give his views if they are reasonable and hold the truth, also please explain why age gives you the right to offend my age? It makes me better than you if you judge by age and I judge by actions. You need to review why your a police officer if you think you can just talk like that.

I WAS STUPID for saying what I said, it was irresponsible as it would offend, It was idiotic, it was arrogant and all those things, but what this thread has proved to me now is that some officers on this forum think to much of themselves., trying to pick apart from words and put things like me saying im better then people in for no reason, its pathetic. Especially on a forum the public can view.

[mdon]

PS. 9-10 kilos is pish for boasting about weight. A police officer can easily end up carrying more kit than that and be expected to be on their feet for 12+ hours.

+1 to that! I carry more than double that for the whole of my 12 hour shift!

Edited by mdon, 12 June 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[MikeBrum]

When did I EVER say I was better than him... dont put words in my mouth. Dont be so stupid about me being 16, Who were you at 16? We all make mistakes and say wrong things but 1 thing I have learnt in yet short life is AGE , counter popular belief does NOT grant wisdom or intellect, or even respect anymore. Respect your elders they say, well treat me with some and you will get more back. Calling me a 12 year old is not the way to go.. REMEMBER who the future of this country is, when your retired remember who is going to be policing, Now I see why people my age hate the police, half of the act like right lunatics sometimes... Makes me wonder why I want to be one.

Please explain to me in detail why a 16 year old cant give his views if they are reasonable and hold the truth, also please explain why age gives you the right to offend my age? It makes me better than you if you judge by age and I judge by actions. You need to review why your a police officer if you think you can just talk like that.

I WAS STUPID for saying what I said, it was irresponsible as it would offend, It was idiotic, it was arrogant and all those things, but what this thread has proved to me now is that some officers on this forum think to much of themselves., trying to pick apart from words and put things like me saying im better then people in for no reason, its pathetic. Especially on a forum the public can view.

You never stated, you did infer - nobody's putting words in mouths.
Age should grant a certain level of predefined respect, like rank.
People do respect you MrKGuy, but you are the one who seems to have shown none of that to other people, hence the sharp reactions to your posts.
I hate how you seem to think you're the vision of maturity, you're not - you're attacking David for showing you up for being an arrogant goit.

No person here said you can't give your views, I'm but 2 years older than you and have been posting here and giving my views for about 3/4 years - nobody's ever stopped me - the difference is my opinions have never disparaged another person nor have they been seemingly to blow my own trumpet - your 'opinions' seem very one sided and biased. He isn't judging you by age, he's saying at your age you seem to be teaching your granny to suck eggs, you're just not understanding what he's edging at. Furthermore, don't you EVER tell any other person they need to 'review why you're a police officer' - that's not your job, my GUT feeling here is you need to review why you want to be one, is it because you like being an arrogant 'I am'? Or do you genuinely want to help people. If you're the future of the service then I despair.

There we go, you're talking the truth and not a load of bubbles in that last paragraph!


Do apologise, I did lose my temper there...

[David]

When did I EVER say I was better than him... dont put words in my mouth. Dont be so stupid about me being 16, Who were you at 16? We all make mistakes and say wrong things but 1 thing I have learnt in yet short life is AGE , counter popular belief does NOT grant wisdom or intellect, or even respect anymore. Respect your elders they say, well treat me with some and you will get more back. Calling me a 12 year old is not the way to go.. REMEMBER who the future of this country is, when your retired remember who is going to be policing, Now I see why people my age hate the police, half of the act like right lunatics sometimes... Makes me wonder why I want to be one.

Please explain to me in detail why a 16 year old cant give his views if they are reasonable and hold the truth, also please explain why age gives you the right to offend my age? It makes me better than you if you judge by age and I judge by actions. You need to review why your a police officer if you think you can just talk like that.

I WAS STUPID for saying what I said, it was irresponsible as it would offend, It was idiotic, it was arrogant and all those things, but what this thread has proved to me now is that some officers on this forum think to much of themselves., trying to pick apart from words and put things like me saying im better then people in for no reason, its pathetic. Especially on a forum the public can view.

You're coming across as a petulant brat.

I have learnt in yet short life is AGE , counter popular belief does NOT grant wisdom or intellect, or even respect anymore. Respect your elders they say, well treat me with some and you will get more back.

Where was your respect when you waded into the thread?

Calling me a 12 year old is not the way to go..

You learned to read at NINE. So read the post again. I didn't call you 12.

REMEMBER who the future of this country is, when your retired remember who is going to be policing

If by your tantrum(s) you are our future, I despair. There are cadets on here younger than you and they have shown more maturity than you have thus far. And I respect them and have time for them.

Now I see why people my age hate the police, half of the act like right lunatics sometimes...

Now I see why people our age hate the young, 'half of the act act like right lunatics at times,.'

Please explain to me in detail why a 16 year old cant give his views if they are reasonable and hold the truth

No one has said you can't give your views or opinions. I've said there are ways of putting them. Yours were not reasonable as has been pointed out by more than one person.

also please explain why age gives you the right to offend my age?

What gives you the right to offend anyone of any age on here? Grow up.

but what this thread has proved to me now is that some officers on this forum think to much of themselves.,

Says he belittling someone making efforts on the bleep and boasting more than once his athletic prowess…

its pathetic. Especially on a forum the public can view.

Quite right. Everything you have said so far is available to everyone.

[MrKguy]

OKAY OKAY, I get it, but seriously? This is an argument about nothing.. I made some quick statement that turn it into a war.. One thing I can see is I asked for respect but gave none in my first post, Now I reflect on that im sorry, but the truth about me being a cadet is different , im sorry if you think im not mature but I have done things as a cadet that no other MET cadet will ever do, I was one of about 3000 along with 10 cadets to parade at the cenotaph , I was 1 of 40 cadets out of 3000 to parade in-front of the royal family and PM and cabinet and guess what got me their? maturity. Why am I on a cadet-PC mentor scheme available to only 5 cadets in my unit out of 100? I am a very good cadet so don't start pointing that one out. I may act rash on this forum but to be honest, I have achieved more in my 16 year life than most adults did at 16.. like it or not that's the truth, Who else can say at 16 they saw the entire royal family and talked to 2 MET commissioners and other "High" members of society. Dont judge me and I wont judge you.

[David]

Just bear all we've been saying in mind MrKguy, just bear in mind all we've been saying...

[MrKguy]

Just bear all we've been saying in mind MrKguy, just bear in mind all we've been saying...

I will, I really need to start getting my point across better don't I? I think first thing I did wrong was make it a little personal.

[TroyTempest]

ok, lesson learned i think.

Im willing to cut a 16 year old some slack. Take it on the chin and move on. to be fair your stamina improves with age so ill not sniff at your dofe expeances. stupid mobile browser.

Remember that with age on your side and if youre of a slight build tests like the beep test are additionally made easier by your power to weight ratio. there is a tipping point at where ot becoms dramatically harder wok.
There will always be a fitness or role specific test which you will find hard. Just because youve not done one yet doesnt mean it isnt out there. as for 5.4,
it is low and the op would do well t
o work on getting that up for their own healths sake.. it sounds like they have the right attitude however as others have said if youve been putting concerted effort into training over that period you need to start training smarternot harder. or maybe both .
Its interesting to note that the other mesasure used is a 1.5 mile run. Or as I know it, the 2400m VO2Max estimation test. See the recurring theme. The level 5.4 corrolates to a minimum non gender and age adjusted test for the maximum age of person to go through recruitment. It isnt a good me

So ive just looked it up. 5.4 is above average for a 46-55 year old woman. Why they dont age and gender adjust it I dont really know, perhaps some utterly false belief that its bias rather than the simple scientific fact that peoples ability to do exercise decreases with age and that women generally have a smaller lung capacity than men, less oxygen in, less oxygen burned, less work done. Simples. Why we have different categories for men and women in sport.

Gender adjust it and the 18 year old blokes would be doing 9.2, and the 55 year old woman would be doing 5.4 *and for their ages and genders theyd be as fit as each other on balance*

[MrKguy]

Gender adjust it and the 18 year old blokes would be doing 9.2, and the 55 year old woman would be doing 5.4 *and for their ages and genders theyd be as fit as each other on balance*

on balance, in reality no, but as you said I guess it is down to age. The Scottish one is quite good then I guess, as it accounts for age and gender? Quite interesting though.

[Sam Vimes]

REMEMBER who the future of this country is, when your retired remember who is going to be policing, Now I see why people my age hate the police, half of the act like right lunatics sometimes... Makes me wonder why I want to be one.

I'm a serving cop - probably not much older than you - and I don't want to work with such a throbber, so please save us the aggro of having to turf you out and just don't apply.


To the OP; congrats on your improved performance, any increase is good to see. Don't fool yourself though, the pass mark on the beep test for the Police isn't that high, so don't satisfy yourself with meeting it and rest on your laurels. Keep pushing, keep improving.... well done

[MrKguy]

I'm a serving cop - probably not much older than you - and I don't want to work with such a throbber, so please save us the aggro of having to turf you out and just don't apply.

Its over, just stop. please.

Edited by MrKguy, 12 June 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[tdcist]

Who else can say at 16 they saw the entire royal family.

I can...... Anyway... Not what this topic is about lol!

Actually I lie, I was 17 when I worked with my last royal...