12 replies to this topic

[oilysean]

Ok relative as I've just seen it.

Person A has posted a Photo on a networking website, where he/she is facing the camera holding what appears to be a firearm in a threatening pose. Obviously there is no way to tell whether said firearm is imitation or not.

What action (If any) would you / should you be take/ What offences have been committed if any.

Edited by oilysean, 27 May 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[Jeebs]

None and no action.

Unless the firearm was real there are no offences, and I wouldn't worry myself about it.

Edited by David, 27 May 2012 - 05:12 PM.
Not an American state - yet

[Ben.]

I would not go to the extent to say no action taken by police, at all. I have had two calls like this before, where I have gone around the informants house, looked at these photos and submitted a intelligence report and directly informed the Duty Officer right away. The latest one, which was a month a go I think, I submitted the report, informed the Duty Officer, who then phoned SCO19 and a warrant was issued that day through emergency channels.

Yes in this day and age, we have all sort of photos on facebook and other social network sites, however we need to take a proactive stance on intelligence/calls we receive regarding firearms and if we feel these people could pose a risk to themselves or others action does get taken. I'm not saying this is always the case, but those are my two experiences to answer the OP.

[SkinSte]

What is a warrant issued in emergancy circumstances and how does it differ from any other warrant?

Photos of guns, cannabis farms and large amounts of cash on facebook usually result in an intel entry and then the intel unit can take it from there. It may be a toy gun, or from a country where possession of the firearm was legal, or even legal in this country. It could be some gang banger posing with a Mac-10 two days before someone gets offed in a shoot out in a club. That's for the people in the know to make a decision on.

[Ben.]

What is a warrant issued in emergancy circumstances and how does it differ from any other warrant?

Photos of guns, cannabis farms and large amounts of cash on facebook usually result in an intel entry and then the intel unit can take it from there. It may be a toy gun, or from a country where possession of the firearm was legal, or even legal in this country. It could be some gang banger posing with a Mac-10 two days before someone gets offed in a shoot out in a club. That's for the people in the know to make a decision on.

I asked this, I believe the emergency is just a process if it ticks the right amount of boxes, with SMT approval, they can go to the court and get it on the hurry up.

[TangoBravoVimto]

Depends on the circumstances of the picture? There is pictures of me on holiday in the US with firearms perfectly legally?

Unless there is a suggestion there is a link to an offence then I would purely submit a brief intelligence entry via updating the log with details.

[oilysean]

Depends on the circumstances of the picture? There is pictures of me on holiday in the US with firearms perfectly legally?

Unless there is a suggestion there is a link to an offence then I would purely submit a brief intelligence entry via updating the log with details.

No was posed for in the subjects house. So unless it's clear any offences have been committed. Just submit a report and leave at that?

[Moonie]

Without wishing to sound master of the obvious, i think it would also depend very much on what/if any " previous" the person has or if they are " known to us".
There was a photo doing the rounds on FB some time back of a football " fan" posing and surrounded by a collection of firearms of varying types... ( No doubt trying to suggest what a hard man he was!)
As i understand it, this photo was brought to the attention of officers along with the chap's name. He was known to the police who then promptly obtained a warrant and local officers along with SO19 gave him an early morning wake up!
Apparently the "arsenal" was a collection of replicas/toys but they were still removed from the property and chummy was given the obligatory hard time and questioning but no charges were actually made against him... Whether or not he then would have been handed back these "weapons" is yet another matter of conjecture....

I would certainly not " do nothing and ignore it".... , at the very least there is a responsibility to make it official even if for LIO purposes only.... Whilst there may not actually be any real offence to be photographed with a firearm ( due to it's near impossibility to assess whether it is genuine or not); It WOULD be of interests to police if there is any intent to threaten or intimidate with this photo content and if so would there be an offence of a malicious communication then? and even so, imitations or toys can and are still used in the execution of illegal activities!

It comes down to old adage that if in doubt record it for intel purposes or run it by a superior. At the end of the day, in this job there is no such thing as too much information and intelligence. If it is decided that no offence has been committed then fine; but at least the local nick has his name and is aware of his " toy gun" collection... and that can surely not be a bad thing.

[Moxnil]

Without wishing to sound master of the obvious, i think it would also depend very much on what/if any " previous" the person has or if they are " known to us".
There was a photo doing the rounds on FB some time back of a football " fan" posing and surrounded by a collection of firearms of varying types... ( No doubt trying to suggest what a hard man he was!)
As i understand it, this photo was brought to the attention of officers along with the chap's name. He was known to the police who then promptly obtained a warrant and local officers along with SO19 gave him an early morning wake up!
Apparently the "arsenal" was a collection of replicas/toys but they were still removed from the property and chummy was given the obligatory hard time and questioning but no charges were actually made against him... Whether or not he then would have been handed back these "weapons" is yet another matter of conjecture....

I would certainly not " do nothing and ignore it".... , at the very least there is a responsibility to make it official even if for LIO purposes only.... Whilst there may not actually be any real offence to be photographed with a firearm ( due to it's near impossibility to assess whether it is genuine or not); It WOULD be of interests to police if there is any intent to threaten or intimidate with this photo content and if so would there be an offence of a malicious communication then? and even so, imitations or toys can and are still used in the execution of illegal activities!

It comes down to old adage that if in doubt record it for intel purposes or run it by a superior. At the end of the day, in this job there is no such thing as too much information and intelligence. If it is decided that no offence has been committed then fine; but at least the local nick has his name and is aware of his " toy gun" collection... and that can surely not be a bad thing.

What legislation was used to seize the imitation guns?

[SkinSte]

He's said a warrant was obtained.

[Moonie]

All i heard was that due to the info received police entered and removed a number of " firearms" and other " items of interest"
On execution of a warrant they have seized articles...... Pretty straight forward mate!!
That is why i wondered if these then subsequent seized " good/items" would have been retained if there were no charges offered. That is something i don't know, hence my point about conjecture..... Should they be kept?....CAN they be kept?

The bottom line point to this is that we cannot ignore idiots playing bravado with guns ( fake or otherwise) on places like face book and not feel that it is at least worth passing something on to the local nick.... It's small bits of general info like that, that solves a lot of crimes..... That was my point brother.

Edited by Moonie, 02 July 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[Kilo Sierra]

What legislation was used to seize the imitation guns?

I was not there and i'm not a legal ninja, but the warrent was likely a S.8 PACE search warrent for possession of the firearms and the items were seized using s.19 PACE. Just becasue a weapon is currently not 'real' or 'working' etc doesn't mean that they couldn't have been sezied to get them checked e.g. at a proving house etc to check they were decommissed correctly/not stollen/linked to anything etc etc

Just my best guess.

[Moxnil]

I was not there and i'm not a legal ninja, but the warrent was likely a S.8 PACE search warrent for possession of the firearms and the items were seized using s.19 PACE. Just becasue a weapon is currently not 'real' or 'working' etc doesn't mean that they couldn't have been sezied to get them checked e.g. at a proving house etc to check they were decommissed correctly/not stollen/linked to anything etc etc

Just my best guess.

Ok cheers.