30 replies to this topic

[TroyTempest]

Hi,

I had this this morning, lady waiting to cross on one side, lollipop lady on the other side. I saw the lollipop lady (high vized like a beacon), not looking to stop traffic and actually didn't clock the other pedestrian as I sailed through the crossing spotting her just as I went and shouted a garbled apology (threat fixation, I know, it's a bad thing)

What's the rules regarding the zebra crossing? Surely as soon as there are people looking to cross I need to stop even if the lollipop man is holding them back or instructing them to wait.

Yours,
WAID

[Londonbased]

Hi,

I had this this morning, lady waiting to cross on one side, lollipop lady on the other side. I saw the lollipop lady (high vized like a beacon), not looking to stop traffic and actually didn't clock the other pedestrian as I sailed through the crossing spotting her just as I went and shouted a garbled apology (threat fixation, I know, it's a bad thing)

What's the rules regarding the zebra crossing? Surely as soon as there are people looking to cross I need to stop even if the lollipop man is holding them back or instructing them to wait.

Yours,
WAID

My understanding is pedestrians must stop on the pavement at the zebra crossing and wait for a suitable gap in the traffic flow before stepping on to it. I don't think there is a legal requirement for traffic to stop until a pedestrian actually steps foot onto the crossing though I may be wrong. Once they are actually on the crossing traffic must stop for them.
School Crossing Patrols (or lollipop ladies as they are often referred to) are there only for schoolchildren and not for adult pedestrians which is why she may not have been looking to stop traffic.

Edited by Londonbased, 24 May 2012 - 10:40 AM.

[andituk]

You MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing, but if they've not stepped off yet, you don't have to stop.

[TroyTempest]

ok, so the trick with management is ensuring that people don't step onto the crossing, and the rule is really that simple?

Cool. Thanks.

With regards to rights, duespaid I appreciate what you're saying but I try to be a considerate road user as apposed to just a right one

[SPC Mathew]

you can get 3 points and a £60 for Failing to accord precedence zebra crossing. code (H113)

[Dave SYP]

My understanding is pedestrians must stop on the pavement at the zebra crossing and wait for a suitable gap in the traffic flow before stepping on to it. I don't think there is a legal requirement for traffic to stop until a pedestrian actually steps foot onto the crossing though I may be wrong. Once they are actually on the crossing traffic must stop for them.
School Crossing Patrols (or lollipop ladies as they are often referred to) are there only for schoolchildren and not for adult pedestrians which is why she may not have been looking to stop traffic.

Lollypop crossing wardens have fixed hours, but can, and indeed do now assist adults to cross too.

[candles]

It looks like the Transport Act 2000, Section 270 makes some amendments to the Road Traffic Act 1984, Sections 26,28, so yes it is an offence not to stop for a crossing guard if directed...

i stop as well, because i dont trust hem not to step out a the last min, though i stop for green light with camera on them coz i think they might change on me, that does seem to anoy some people though

How do you get through a set of lights with a camera??

[David]

Traffic should be prepared to stop for a Belisha beacon zebra crossing, but it doesn't have to until the pedestrian has set foot on it.

[Burnie]

very carefully if i see it go green in the distance then i coast a long in the hope it goes red before i get there, if not a stop and wait for it to go red and then back to green again before setting off, if im closer han that i just drive through, though have slowed to about 10 mph just in case

Wait... WHAT?!?

You seriously slow down and stop at green lights, wait for them to go red, wait for them to go green and THEN go through?!?

I could understand if you reduced speed in case you had to stop (i do that) but stopping despite it being green... I just cant understand why you would do this, after all, every traffic light must display Amber for AT LEAST the time it would take a vehicle to stop from the maximum speed permitted on the stretch of road prior to it. After that it goes red and THAT is when the camera becomes 'active'.

[alphamikebravo]

very carefully if i see it go green in the distance then i coast a long in the hope it goes red before i get there, if not a stop and wait for it to go red and then back to green again before setting off, if im closer han that i just drive through, though have slowed to about 10 mph just in case

What if there's a pedestrian crossing with a red light camera? Do you wait until someone pushes the button?

I hope I never have to share the same piece of road with you.

[General Purpose]

very carefully if i see it go green in the distance then i coast a long in the hope it goes red before i get there, if not a stop and wait for it to go red and then back to green again before setting off, if im closer han that i just drive through, though have slowed to about 10 mph just in case

Just... dear God. If I was in a patrol car behind you and you stopped at a green light and made no attempt to move I would be pulling you over to see a) what is the matter, if anything and b) if A is not applicable, giving you strong words of advise. Like you don't stop at green lights without a good reason. And before you say it, it wouldn't be under caution unless I detect an offence, you could have legal advise if you wish but I don't think it's really necessary but you're more than welcome. Say 10am tomorrow at the local nick and we can have a chat about wilful obstruction to the highway. 137
Penalty for wilful obstruction.

(1)

If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1level 3 on the standard scale].

[General Purpose]

wilful obstuction has been replaced by unnesscersary obstuction i believe ? its not often i end up actualy stopped, i just get slower and slower, so that not eith willfull or unessersary obstruction

Not particuarlly fussed what the wording says. If it's wilful and you do it that's what I will say. If you just get slower and slower and the light stays green and you reach the line, you stop and wait for it to turn red then back to green? If, like I said, you did that... I would happily give you a ticket.

[General Purpose]

what about when i stop at a crossing on green to let a kid or an old lady cross, is that an offence as well ?

In full Duespaid tradition and following the exact letter of the law, yes. If it's a busy road and you allow them to cross therefore halting traffic yes. If it's a quiet road and you're the only car then I don't see a problem with it.

[BigCopSmallTown]

Duespaid - you're just being ridiculous now!

[securitas88]

wilful obstuction has been replaced by unnesscersary obstuction i believe ? its not often i end up actualy stopped, i just get slower and slower, so that not eith willfull or unessersary obstruction

No, wilful obstruction is still an offence.

There are three obstruction offences relating to highways/roads/streets:

S137 Highways Act 1980 - causing a wilful obstruction to the highway.
S103 Construction & Use Regulations 1986 - causing an unnecessary obstruction to a road with a motor vehicle.
S28 Town Police Clauses Act 1847 - causing a wilful obstruction to a street with a waggon, cart, or carriage.

All three potentially could be used in the case you have described.

[ChrisR]

what about when i stop at a crossing on green to let a kid or an old lady cross, is that an offence as well ?

According to The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997 Section 12 part 2 and 13 part 2

(2) Vehicular traffic proceeding beyond a stop line in accordance with paragraph (1) shall proceed with due regard to the safety of other road users and subject to any direction given by a constable in uniform or a traffic warden or to any other applicable prohibition or restriction.

My interpretation is that you must give priority to pedestrians on the crossing regardless of the signal - so if the signal is red you MUST stop but if the signal is otherwise you must give way to pedestrians - so you may proceed past the stop line in order to safely pass by the pedestrians but otherwise you would have to stop until they had moved out of your way.

[Shogy1]

, though i stop for green light with camera on them coz i think they might change on me, that does seem to anoy some people though

Clear case of Driving without due care and consideration and attention as is showing a clear lack of awareness of what is going on around him.

[securitas88]

If you're going to bring up case law then please don't be vague with it. From what I remember, there is very little case law stating exactly what would be an obstruction and what wouldn't. I believe that they prefer to leave it to the courts to decide on each individual case.

[General Purpose]

Clear case of Driving without due care and consideration and attention as is showing a clear lack of awareness of what is going on around him.

Where's my ticket book when you need one.....

[General Purpose]

you cant yet give a ticket for careless, but here is a tech question, can your driving fall bellow the acceptable standard if you not actually moving ?, just a thought

I'm not talking about careless. I'm talking about obstruction.

[General Purpose]

ok can you pursue willful obstruction if the time stopped was minimal, say 20 seconds to let an old lady cross

If you were letting someone cross and there was minimal traffic I wouldn't bother, but if you're blatantly stopping for NO reason apart from the pathetic excuse you came out with you will be getting a ticket.

[General Purpose]

i wasnt asking if youd give a ticket or not, im asking if its an offence or not

No reason why not, wouldn't bother if you were letting someone cross and it wasn't rush hour causing two sides of traffic to stop. You either wilfully did it and or it was unnecessary. Perhaps if you used correct grammar and punctuation I would be able to tell if it was a question.

Edited by General Purpose, 25 May 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[General Purpose]

ok so who have i obstructed ?

Me. The road user. If you're unable to work that out then should you really have a DL. Also, if you're sitting at a green light vehicles will be more likely to go past you, which could cause a serious accident and you could cause a pedestrian to be struck by a car because they think traffic has stopped to allow them to pass.






No doubt you will start boring the death out of me about the exact wording, to which I don't really care.

Edited by General Purpose, 25 May 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[Dave SYP]

'3 all' I think....Shall we call it a draw? You two really love to debate to the 'enth degree' don't you?

[TroyTempest]

STOP!

Back to topic. Although I think it's been well answered.