146 replies to this topic

[CmdKeen]

I think you'll find that the original idea for Op Trident came from a Sergeant.

But it wasn't a Sergeant that started it. One of the many aspects of a good leader/manager is being able to take the ideas of others an implement them - rather than thinking only you know best. Introducing an operation that specifically targets ethnic minority crime, especially black gun crime, requires a vast amount of political cover. Career on the line political cover that a sergeant simply cannot give. Trident was not universally welcomed, and indeed now there are plenty of people willing to play the race card regarding it.

[Mayday]

In the Interview he states he went on attachments with RPU, PO, Firearms, and various others. Yet i'm sure he didn't reference these when he was being interviewed about his reports?

[Dave SYP]

So, does the new HMIC have a tenure of appointment or will he have the job as long as he wants it / life of current parliament? Will he have the gaul to wear the uniform?

[Seppuku]

But it wasn't a Sergeant that started it. One of the many aspects of a good leader/manager is being able to take the ideas of others an implement them - rather than thinking only you know best. Introducing an operation that specifically targets ethnic minority crime, especially black gun crime, requires a vast amount of political cover. Career on the line political cover that a sergeant simply cannot give. Trident was not universally welcomed, and indeed now there are plenty of people willing to play the race card regarding it.

I think you'll agree that this Sergeant did more than solve a few crimes a year and he did slightly more than have an idea, he started it on a small scale, then wrote the full proposal and became an integral part of the implementation process.

I fully agree with you, that its not just work on the 'Coal Face' that has an impact, but you can't discount the massive impact that officers in lower ranks can make.

[CmdKeen]

I fully agree with you, that its not just work on the 'Coal Face' that has an impact, but you can't discount the massive impact that officers in lower ranks can make.

I'm not trying to - but that is pretty much "preaching to the converted" on here. There's less of an acceptance/understanding of the impact of senior ranks - basically it is a multiplicative effect, do well and you can have a massive change across an entire force / country. Do badly and you can break far more than probably any front line officer (short of those who beat Rodney King...).

Dave - I doubt he'll wear a uniform given he's a civilian. Unless the current, civilian, inspectors go around in uniform...

[Rocket]

The uniform and if Winsor will wear one is interesting, but we shall have to wait and see.

This sort of thing has happened before, remember the thread where we discussed Sir Hugh Orde and his made up ACPO badge?



http://www.policespe...l__+acpo +badge

[Sam Vimes]

ACPO President has a Chief Constable rank in law I believe...? HMIC doesn't, but since it's always been held by a cop then the uniform isn't exactly out of place. I would wet myself if Winsor turned out in full CC uniform!

[Seppuku]

I'm not trying to - but that is pretty much "preaching to the converted" on here. There's less of an acceptance/understanding of the impact of senior ranks - basically it is a multiplicative effect, do well and you can have a massive change across an entire force / country. Do badly and you can break far more than probably any front line officer (short of those who beat Rodney King...).
.

Good job at avoiding the main point of my post.

I think anyone who would argue that we don't need senior officers with good sound leadership skills, a good knowledge base and experience would be foolish in the extreme, but that's the point here, Windsor doesn't seem to display any of these very important qualities, you could accept a senior officer who has no respect if he had good knowledge, or visa versa, but one with none of these is in serious trouble before they start.

[owenred]

When do we hear the result ??

[Rocket]

When do we hear the result ??

Winsor has the job. There was never any doubt of that he would get it as the HASC could have been overridden by the HO anyway.

[Law_Grad]

Having watched his interview yesterday he did have a couple of valid points which if he can do something about them would make a difference to some police officers

1. reducing the waiting / booking in times to get into custody

2. improving the Computer sytems and bringing them more up to date.

Time will tell.

I must say I absolutely agreed with him about what he said about our IT systems; "They have computer screens which resemble those that you would have seen in the 1980's"

I could have told the MPs that and the general public. In fact we've been bleating on about it for years. Sadly improving the computers and booking in times will only mean spending money. Of which nobody has. So it's all words until proven otherwise.

[cynical mode]

Be careful what you wish for, as you could end up with an NHS style cutting edge IT system…in fact, and as that project was put on hold or stopped, it might be less to do with looking like it and actually being it.

A jaded person might even suggest that IT systems & hardware could be the first of many eggs the golden goose will be laying, nice & shiny eggs for the selected & favoured private enterprises.

[/cynical mode]

[CmdKeen]

Good job at avoiding the main point of my post.

I think anyone who would argue that we don't need senior officers with good sound leadership skills, a good knowledge base and experience would be foolish in the extreme, but that's the point here, Windsor doesn't seem to display any of these very important qualities, you could accept a senior officer who has no respect if he had good knowledge, or visa versa, but one with none of these is in serious trouble before they start.

And Winsor isn't going to be a senior police officer...

One thing any outsider might ask is why E&W forces persist with their separate systems. Scotland has had a national intelligence system for years now, it isn't perfect and had teething issues, but is certainly a model to borrow/build on. The single Scottish force is going to bring all sorts of lessons in administration amalgamation. Only the most hard core Not Invented Here Syndrome sufferer would fail to try to draw lessons from that.

British policing has built some impressive and national systems in the past. HOLMES 2 for instance, and good old PNC.

[Seppuku]

And Winsor isn't going to be a senior police officer...

One thing any outsider might ask is why E&W forces persist with their separate systems. Scotland has had a national intelligence system for years now, it isn't perfect and had teething issues, but is certainly a model to borrow/build on. The single Scottish force is going to bring all sorts of lessons in administration amalgamation. Only the most hard core Not Invented Here Syndrome sufferer would fail to try to draw lessons from that.

British policing has built some impressive and national systems in the past. HOLMES 2 for instance, and good old PNC.

You're quite correct, however I was careful not to use the term "senior police officer" in my post. However, I did use the term "senior officer" which of course he will be, as all of Her Majesties Inspectors of Constabulary are "Inspecting Officers" and since he's applied for the top job there, he will be a "senior officer".

You're right that police IT systems that are national would be a better solution, however I think the fact that many of these systems are integrated with other local systems, with each force making different requirements on the systems and that many of the contracts with suppliers and service providers have fixed terms, often ending at different times makes this an enormous task. Just look at the NHS national IT systems fiasco. I think that the idea is good, but it will be a massive job and maybe cost prohibitive in these austere times.

[Hades]

. I would wet myself if Winsor turned out in full CC uniform!

I think that would be something like the final straw...!

[diskworld3]

And Winsor isn't going to be a senior police officer...

One thing any outsider might ask is why E&W forces persist with their separate systems. Scotland has had a national intelligence system for years now, it isn't perfect and had teething issues, but is certainly a model to borrow/build on. The single Scottish force is going to bring all sorts of lessons in administration amalgamation. Only the most hard core Not Invented Here Syndrome sufferer would fail to try to draw lessons from that.

British policing has built some impressive and national systems in the past. HOLMES 2 for instance, and good old PNC.

There is a new system being implemented by Essex and 13 other forces starting later this year called Athena which is going to be case & custody, intel (shared amongst all forces signed up to it), crime recording, warrants, mispers etc etc.

It should hopefully go well and they're going to implement it as a national system if it does work out, so watch this space...

[Sam Vimes]

Lawyer and former police pay reviewer to take up post in October after retirement of Sir Denis O'Connor.

Date - 4th July 2012
Tom Winsor has officially been confirmed as the next HM Chief Inspector of Constabulary – and the successor to Sir Denis O’Connor who retires in the autumn.
A statement from the Home Office said Mr Winsor’s appointment had now been endorsed by Prime Minister David Cameron and ratified by The Queen.

The former police pay reviewer was selected as the preferred candidate on June 6. He is the first holder of the position without operational policing experience.

The Home Office said Mr Winsor’s appointment followed a rigorous selection process. He was also scrutinised by Home Affairs Select Committee members, who concluded they had no objection to him taking up the post.

Home Secretary Theresa May told reporters after the appointment: “I am delighted to confirm Tom Winsor as the new Chief Inspector of Constabulary.
“He has demonstrated a very clear understanding of the complex challenges facing policing and brings with him a wealth of experience from his role as rail regulator and from his review of police pay and conditions.

“I look forward to working with him when he takes up the appointment in October.”

As previously reported on PoliceOracle.com, Mr Winsor has attracted controversy in the past 18 months after conducting a review of police pay and conditions.
His recommendations, which have included a lower starting salary for officers, higher entrance qualifications for recruits and direct entry at inspector and superintendent level, have been lambasted by some officers.

Mr Winsor said after the announcement: “Appointment as HM Chief Inspector of Constabulary carries a great responsibility which I shall discharge with the support and assistance of the Inspectors of Constabulary, the excellent staff of HMIC and the co-operation of the Police Service.

“The public interest will be my primary focus. The greater the efficiency and effectiveness of police forces, the higher will be the protection of the public and their safety.”

A wealth of experience from his time as rail regulator (he did such a good job there!) and his review of pay and conditions (because he went on a couple of ride-alongs then made up some evidence to support his opinions). Great! Can't wait for him to get started ballsing our Police Service up even further.

[Morse]

Goes to show that you may know nothing about a subject but with perseverance and a few contacts then you can do anything in life.

The police is no different to anything else. Look who the govt pay a ministers wage to work in the treasury where it could be argued one is at the top of their game!

[David]

Doesn't it just inspire confidence

[Rocket]

I am going to apply to be the new CEO of Barclays on the strength of this. As I know as much about banking as Tom Winsor knows about policing then the job is surely mine.

[Sam Vimes]

I am going to apply to be the new CEO of Barclays on the strength of this. As I know as much about banking as Tom Winsor knows about policing then the job is surely mine.

Unfortunately you possess a negative trait to shoe-horn yourself ino a top-level job, cosying up to politicians with no experience.... you have morals.

[HazRat]

That probably means that Winsor will be fully implemented, we'll see the demise of ACPO and have to get a licence to
Police. Fun times ahead.

[Dave SYP]

Fun times ahead INDEED! Our GLORIOUS government, in its wisdom, is not just carving up the police, they are now carving up the armed forces AGAIN it seems.

When will it end?