20 replies to this topic

[Guybrush]

This a real scenario that happened yesterday...

...a person went to a car boot sale on Sunday (yesterday) morning then took all their unsold items to a charity shop in the afternoon. The shop was closed so they left the donations outside the shop (I know they don't like you doing this).

They then drove past this morning before the shop was open and the items were gone with no time for the shop to open and retrieve them.

I'm thinking that the charity had not assumed ownership of the items therfore it was not their loss. The owner of the goods had in effect abandoned them so it was not their loss either. How about theft by finding? There is no I/P as such.

Any ideas?

This is quite a serious question posted in good faith so no smart rear answers please.

[Alex_101]

The issue i'd raise here would be about ownership of the property.
Not too sure about theft by finding.

[Alex_101]

Does the same go for those charity bins where people leave clothes?

[Dave SYP]

I don't think charity shops like taking unsold junk from car boot sales, it would normally be stuff for the bin or recycling. Definately theft though.

[wanabe]

Yep theft.

[Guybrush]

I don't think charity shops like taking unsold junk from car boot sales, it would normally be stuff for the bin or recycling. Definately theft though.

I said no smart rear answers but some vegetables just can't help themselves. What the items were is irrelevant - I was actually talking about the theft itself and not about the proceedures of a charity shop.

[pmtts]

I said no smart rear answers but some vegetables just can't help themselves. What the items were is irrelevant - I was actually talking about the theft itself and not about the proceedures of a charity shop.

With an attitude like that sunshine, you won't get much respect on here. Wind your neck in

[Dave SYP]

I said no smart rear answers but some vegetables just can't help themselves. What the items were is irrelevant - I was actually talking about the theft itself and not about the proceedures of a charity shop.

The answer from this vegetable is the same as the previous poster - wind it in please!

[Derf]

If there is a notice on the charity shop asking not to leave items it would be fly tipping on the part of the person who left it. I could be that the binmen disposed of it if it was left on the street.

[Chewie]

Does the same go for those charity bins where people leave clothes?

Yes - it's probably more clear cut than the abandonment of items on a pavement or shopfront, too (see Derf's post above for possible reasons why). As far as the charity bins for books, clothes, etc, where items have actually been posted through the slots into the bin, this would definitely be theft.

Edited by Chewie, 21 May 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[Kilo Sierra]

Theft by finding just requires a reasonable attempt to identify the owner, as long as some course of action is undertaken, then thats fine e.g taking it to the local station and handing it in is fine, after 30 days you can claim it. That would be reasonable, whispers under your breath "is this your £20 note in the wallet with the credit cards etc in, with who's name on???" in a que line isn't really.

Of course, that it was outside the shop gives away the intentions.

It could be that a store worker/manager came by to do something and brought them inside...or binmen...or thieves...of aliens.

While it is theft, would have to be looking at the reasons why they are doing this as to how it acctually gets dealt with.

[Prolixia]

The term "theft by finding" often appears in these threads as if it's a specific offence in its own right. It isn't, it's just just plain old theft but described in a way that tells you a little more about the circumstances.

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and ‘theft’ and ‘steal ’shall be construed accordingly.

In this case:

"Dishonestly" - Probably, it should be perfectly clear to the person taking the items that they have been left for the charity and not abandoned.
"Appropriates property" - Yes, he takes the items for himself
"Property belonging to another" - As stated above, there is case law* on exactly this scenario - the items become the shop's property when they are left outside for the shop to receive
"With the intention of permanently depriving the other of it" - Probably, the person taking the items probably isn't intending to give them back.

So whether or not this is theft depends entirely on the intention of the person taking the items. If someone opposite the shop sees them left outside and takes them inside to protect them from the elements until he can return them after the shop opens then there is neither dishonestly nor an intention to permanently deprive: ergo no theft. If someone sees the items and (e.g. not noticing that the shop is a charity shop) genuinely believes that they have been abandoned then there is no dishonesty. However, if both the dishonesty and intention to permanently deprive criteria are satisfied then this is theft.

* - R v Basildon MC

Edited by Prolixia, 22 May 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[IndiaTango]

One of the recent episodes of Traffic Cops came across this. Two men were arrested for taking clothes from a charity bin at a supermarket. They were arrested for theft but then I believe NFA as the courts couldn't be perfectly sure who the clothes actually belonged to.

*I have slept since this episode and so that might not be 100% accurate. But I'm sure that NFA was taken.

[Prolixia]

One of the recent episodes of Traffic Cops came across this. Two men were arrested for taking clothes from a charity bin at a supermarket. They were arrested for theft but then I believe NFA as the courts couldn't be perfectly sure who the clothes actually belonged to.

*I have slept since this episode and so that might not be 100% accurate. But I'm sure that NFA was taken.

You remember correctly. There was no charge for the reason you've given.

I thought it was a little odd when I saw that episode and I suspect that there may have been rather more to it than the viewers were told. My guess is that there was a suggestion that the DP was the person who put the clothes into the bin in the first place, that the charity no longer existed or had abandoned the bin, that the clothes had been left nearby but not actually in the bin, something along those lines. I'd be interested to know, actually.

[Chewie]

I seem to remember the bags having been taken from just outside the bin... but like ITaylor, I too have slept since then so I could be wrong about that!

[DGP]

I believe it is technically theft, but the matter probably wouldn't go anywhere.

[Alex_101]

I saw an episode of traffic cops where a couple people were seen on CCTV taking clothes out of a charity bin.
There were arrested but it came to NFA because ownership of the clothes could not be proved.

[Prolixia]

I saw an episode of traffic cops where a couple people were seen on CCTV taking clothes out of a charity bin.
There were arrested but it came to NFA because ownership of the clothes could not be proved.

Déjà vu...

[Alex_101]

my mistake for not reading above

[Guybrush]

With an attitude like that sunshine, you won't get much respect on here. Wind your neck in

Firstly, if I were you I wouldn't try to establish my authority by calling other users "sunshine". Secondly, -RTFQ.

[Dave SYP]

Firstly, if I were you I wouldn't try to establish my authority by calling other users "sunshine". Secondly, -RTFQ.

Well Guybrush, it is clear from your most recent post that you might have a problem with authority on this site. We try and keep it 'civil' on here and Moderators are monitoring proceedings 24/7. Please try and keep it civil and I am sure you will enjoy many of the other benefits from corresponding with fellow members.