103 replies to this topic

[support]

You can't help but notice that more and more security company uniforms and equipment resemble police uniform.

I know that there have been cases of police officers mistaking security for police and similar incidents such as the case of Atracks - David Maclean who was cleared on appeal of any offences.

Police Act 1996 Section 90 whilst making it an offence to impersonate a police officer is at best confusing when it comes to uniform, as the Act does not define what is Police Uniform, my understanding is that any item bearing the words police would be defined as police uniform ?

So as long as the item does not have the word police on it it is not a item of police uniform, there are web sites which sell ex police uniform, which comes direct from the police forces.

Though not all forces resell there uniforms, this is a county by county basis.

Talking to officers there seems to be confusion over the wearing of items of uniform or PPE with blue and silver / white checker pattern used by some forces and some security companies which results in considerable confusion, I have heard of arrests for impersonate police fail at court over this one.

I wondered if anyone had any views or experience on confusion between police and security uniform and public perceptions.

C.

[HerrComm]

I work closely with these fellas who look a heck of a lot like police. However because they are security on a private estate I guess they can dress how they like provided they aren't actually deliberately misleading people into thinking they're police.

http://www.flickr.co...bob/4738787488/

They also have a traffic division who wear white caps.

[Lucas North]

Yeah, there's a bunch of people calling themselves "PCSOs" - right set of walts them lot!


Joking aside, I've never (personally) come across anything like this. Tbh it's a difficult one - it's very difficult to prove unless, as you say, visible logos with "police" are present.

I was at a car show last year and one of the lads who was with my car club had an ex-police Skoda. If you looked really REALLY closely at the paintwork, you could just about make out where the livery used to be. This got us talking about "deception" - would you class this as impersonating a police officer?



"I'm just a polite driver, officer. Oh the chevrons? They're just there for safety - like I say, I'm polite and like to help people who've broken down at the side of the road."

It's just another example of how shoddy the law is - so many shades of grey... you'd make a Mercedes dealer jealous.

[BlueBand]

There needs to be something to stop these Security Gaurds dressing like the cops, but there is no telling some.

[support]

It is very much a matter of perception, but that being said the law is not clear on this, even if the law was clearer, so many security companies wear uniforms which look like police it is understandable for the public to get confused.

The problem comes with police is some instances arresting security for impersonating police due to police or members of the public being confused.

At worst could lead to arrests and trials and in cases such as Maclean to a not guilty on appeal.

The other issue that went through my mind is that if it was made clearer that some forces do sell on there old body armour and uniform to MoP's via recycling companies.

[Londonbased]

The security staff at the new Westfields shopping centre in Stratford, East London wear uniforms very similar to police including checked hats and checked Hi Viz jackets.
Also security staff at Blackpool Pleasure park wear checked caps and carry handcuffs.

[bobbiepeel]

likewise those at Thorpe Park, they wear high viz and can carry cuffs as well

[Onlyme2008]

We keep saying the public get confused, I don't see any evidence of that.

If the coat got "SECURITY" on it, their should be no problem. If the guy is not claiming to be police officer, in respect of when asked if he is.

[Corbs]

No problem with Hi-vis, cuffs (when trained) radios, or stab vests, but not sure why the checkered band.

I feel for the security who wear white shirts blue shirts, polo shirts, t shirts, they're guaranteed to look like some force or another with all the uniform differences and with PCSOs vs warranted officers too.

Sidenote, this again, why am I posting?

[Sailor]

All I see in that photo is a man wearing a high-vis jacket and a cute dog.

[caveat_civis]

Police Act 1996 Section 90 whilst making it an offence to impersonate a police officer is at best confusing when it comes to uniform, as the Act does not define what is Police Uniform, my understanding is that any item bearing the words police would be defined as police uniform ?

It does:

(4)In this section—
(a)“article of police uniform” means any article of uniform or any distinctive badge or mark or document of identification usually issued to members of police forces or special constables, or anything having the appearance of such an article, badge, mark or document.

I agree with you that it's a problem. I think there's a lack of interest in prosecuting because people don't see that it's a big deal. And there is perhaps a problem with proving whether the individual intended to deceive.

If we were going to clear up the law on it, I think we ought to more clearly define what police uniform and equipment/markings are, so that it's easier to say what is and isn't similar in appearance.
For example, battenburg markings containing the colour blue could be protected.
And it could be made a requirement that all officer's uniform (whether on the back of a jacket or vest) clearly says the word POLICE in a certain size, colour, etc. (which would be easy if we had a standard national uniform)
Then the public know that if they see what they think is a police officer but nowhere on the uniform does it say POLICE, then they aren't dealing with a constable.

Edited by caveat_civis, 14 May 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[GeorgeB]

I can see both sides for this argument

On one side, if there are people that look like the Police, then aren't the public less likely to commit crime? Especially if they're confused.
On the other side, is this giving security a power trip, so to speak? Which could obviously lead to issues and even more confusion

I think that certain things people associate with the Police should be protected, such as the blue and silver bb pattern, as stated earlier.

[Bart S]

It's like those cowboys in the black and yellow battenburg 4x4s, who do they think they are?

[ococircusboy]

likewise those at Thorpe Park, they wear high viz and can carry cuffs as well

But there uniform says in big letters 'security' and it is all on private premises. There uniform doesn't resemble a police uniform at all. And they definetly need and use their cuffs there.
They are some of the very well trained security, the difference between a conviction and not.

[hampshiresaint]

No problem with these guys at all. If I can read the word Security then im sure the public can.

[SBG]

Well even more reason that we should wear our uniform with pride!

[Alex_101]

Canary Wharf security do look too much like police in my opinion.

I also had to look twice when i first saw the Stratford Westfield security.

[Lucas North]

I think this is more of a "distance" issue - I saw the security at Thorpe Park a couple of years ago (from a distance) and thought to myself, "Why are the old bill here?"

The same with the picture above (the man with the dog) if I saw them from a distance I can honestly say I would have to look twice. THE worst part of all of this, is not the high-vis, not the stab vests... but the squares.


To me, this...




= Police

Edited by Lucas North, 15 May 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[Police Constable 1]

I think this is more of a "distance" issue - I saw the security at Thorpe Park a couple of years ago (from a distance) and thought to myself, "Why are the old bill here?"

The same with the picture above (the man with the dog) if I saw them from a distance I can honestly say I would have to look twice. THE worst part of all of this, is not the high-vis, not the stab vests... but the squares.


To me, this...




= Police

Hmmm the PCSO's near me have the blue and white squares on their jackets but they are not police........

So where do you draw the line? Security cant wear clothes that look similar to police officers as they are not police officers but PCSO's can wear similar to police officers but they are not police officers?

[Alex_101]

I guess in thorpe park, the cuffs also don't help!

[Burnie]

Hmmm the PCSO's near me have the blue and white squares on their jackets but they are not police..........

Have you forgotten what PCSO stands for...


He didnt say that Sillitoe = Police Officers he said Sillitoe = Police

Edited by Burnie, 15 May 2012 - 02:34 PM.

[Police Constable 1]

Have you forgotten what PCSO stands for...


He didnt say that Sillitoe = Police Officers he said Sillitoe = Police

So its ok for a PCSO to wear the same uniform as a Police officer then even though they arnt police officers?

[Burnie]

So its ok for a PCSO to wear the same uniform as a Police officer then even though they arnt police officers?

Yes, because they have the big blue band, a blue tie, blue eppaulettes and the words "Police community support officer"

Oh and they are part of the police


And the new shirts make it even more obvious

[very special]

Sorry i have an issue with PCSO's having POLICE on the back of jackets vests etc. My force area has Police Community Support Officer on the back, neighbouring force PCSO's have police on the back in huge letters. Some of them wear black vests and cycle helmets, vey difficult to tell what they are. Sorry but this is misleading the public. No issue with PCSO's they do a great job, but should have distinctive uniform.

[Kilo Sierra]

You can't help but notice that more and more security company uniforms and equipment resemble police uniform.

I know that there have been cases of police officers mistaking security for police and similar incidents such as the case of Atracks - David Maclean who was cleared on appeal of any offences.

Police Act 1996 Section 90 whilst making it an offence to impersonate a police officer is at best confusing when it comes to uniform, as the Act does not define what is Police Uniform, my understanding is that any item bearing the words police would be defined as police uniform ?

So as long as the item does not have the word police on it it is not a item of police uniform, there are web sites which sell ex police uniform, which comes direct from the police forces.

Though not all forces resell there uniforms, this is a county by county basis.

Talking to officers there seems to be confusion over the wearing of items of uniform or PPE with blue and silver / white checker pattern used by some forces and some security companies which results in considerable confusion, I have heard of arrests for impersonate police fail at court over this one.

I wondered if anyone had any views or experience on confusion between police and security uniform and public perceptions.

C.

This chap could quite easily be mistaken for Police, especially as A) lots of Security types at stuff such as collar numbers or 'dog handler' flashes to their gear to look more officer aka more Police and B) I've seen several officers which take little pride in looking presentable and have missing collar numbers or various other 'slack' uniform habits, which results in a overall reduction in the UNIform bit of the principal.

For the record, i would like to be the 1st to point out that is not a DOG, but in fact a LION....so by these means (as lions are NOT Home Office approved), this must be a security team. For your reference


J