13 replies to this topic

[YRMZLN]

Hi, does somebody know any successful example when suspended SIA licence was restored after court? My story is here in short words: http://www.policespe...ce/page__st__25

Everybody saying "don't worry, it will be dropped and you will have your licence back", but I don't believe now. Court system is very slow and against doormen ( it's my personal opinion ).

Thank you.

[RossLondon]

It's difficult to say simply based on your description of what happened. If I'm correct, then the summary of what you've said is:

• I refused entry to one drunk man
  
• he was racially abusive and aggressive
  
• I pushed him and he fallen down
  
• He brought a charge against me that he cracked his arm

It sounds from that description that you may have used excessive force (or at least, that's probably the reason why your SIA licence was suspended?). I was out last night inside a bar and I saw a man refused entry. The male became quite aggressive but the doorman stood his ground and raised his arm to keep a distance between him and the aggressive male. I don't know what the doorman said, but eventually the male walked off. The description you've given sounds similar, except someone walked away with a broken arm. You are allowed to issue a pre-emptive strike if you felt you were in immediate danger, but there are so many factors to this. For example, if you were three times the size of the aggressor, there may be doubt that you genuinely were in fear for your safety. Whether you get your licence back will depend on all of that - not whether there has been a previous successful example of an SIA licence being restored.


The court system isn't against doorman - at least, no more than they are against police

[callsign-kid]

It's difficult to say simply based on your description of what happened. If I'm correct, then the summary of what you've said is:

• I refused entry to one drunk man
  
• he was racially abusive and aggressive
  
• I pushed him and he fallen down
  
• He brought a charge against me that he cracked his arm

It sounds from that description that you may have used excessive force (or at least, that's probably the reason why your SIA licence was suspended?). I was out last night inside a bar and I saw a man refused entry. The male became quite aggressive but the doorman stood his ground and raised his arm to keep a distance between him and the aggressive male. I don't know what the doorman said, but eventually the male walked off. The description you've given sounds similar, except someone walked away with a broken arm. You are allowed to issue a pre-emptive strike if you felt you were in immediate danger, but there are so many factors to this. For example, if you were three times the size of the aggressor, there may be doubt that you genuinely were in fear for your safety. Whether you get your licence back will depend on all of that - not whether there has been a previous successful example of an SIA licence being restored.


The court system isn't against doorman - at least, no more than they are against police

The situation you saw may have its parallels but it is important to remember that each situation, however familiar is unique and must be taken on its own merits. OP provided that you can show in court that the force you used was reasonable and necessary in the circumstances then you won't have any issue.

[smt]

You really need to get yourself a good lawyer, preferably one who specialises in licensing, and he can take it further or you. That is, after any court cases that you need to defend.

The 'extended police family', "all one team" is propaganda. The two jobs are totally different.

[YRMZLN]

Thank you for your replies.

The man brought a charge ( serious assault ) against me that he cracked his arm. He could do it somewhere else also. I pushed him duing self deffence when his fist with pointing finger moved fast to my eye in punch. I tried to keep safe distance but he kept moving closer and closer. All my bosses said that I did self deffence and must NOT PLEAD GUILTY. There are 4 CCTV camera records.

I don't know is it legal in UK to show somebody real citation papers and so on. But I can tell that when you read my citation everything said against him. Police whitnesses wrote that he was very dunk ( he said 2 vodka and 7 beers ).

I brought charge against him that he was extreamly racially abusive and aggressive.

Simply I think now that court system works automaticaly like computer program and both sides can be punished. I still hope that I'm not right. Simply it's very big stress for me, first week without important for me job. An Intermediate Diet on 7th June.

[RossLondon]

The situation you saw may have its parallels but it is important to remember that each situation, however familiar is unique and must be taken on its own merits.

I thought that went without saying, which is why I did not say it. I didn't think for a second the situation I witnessed was exactly the same.
Purely there to highlight why he may have been arrested / had his licence suspended as his post detailing what happened seemed to suggest the arrest was more down to the fact 'the system' is against doormen.

The man brought a charge ( serious assault ) against me that he cracked his arm. He could do it somewhere else also. I pushed him duing self deffence when his fist with pointing finger moved fast to my eye in punch. I tried to keep safe distance but he kept moving closer and closer. All my bosses said that I did self deffence and must NOT PLEAD GUILTY. There are 4 CCTV camera records.

If the situation is as described, I don't think you have much to worry about (if it is all clearly shown on CCTV).

[YRMZLN]

You really need to get yourself a good lawyer, preferably one who specialises in licensing, and he can take it further or you. That is, after any court cases that you need to defend.

The 'extended police family', "all one team" is propaganda. The two jobs are totally different.

I think you are right about propaganda. About lawyer - I can not afford it, but company didn't bother about it from the very begining.

[chribi]

Does legal aid apply in Scotland?

[richr]

The granting/revocation of an SIA licence is a matter for the SIA. If they've suspended your licence, you should have had correspondence with them about it, and they should have told you about any routes to appeal.

http://www.sia.homeo...revocation.aspx

[YRMZLN]

Thank you for your replies.

I attached bit of my citation.

Attached Files

•  8-1.jpg   34.32K   60 downloads

[MrBlonde]

The SIA are useless, one of the reasons they are going.
Just because something seems clear-cut doesn't mean you'll get the outcome you would reasonably expect.
Suggest you get over to closeprotectionworld.com as there's a whole forum about them, problems with licencing and advice on how to appeal decisions

[YRMZLN]

The SIA are useless, one of the reasons they are going.
Just because something seems clear-cut doesn't mean you'll get the outcome you would reasonably expect.
Suggest you get over to closeprotectionworld.com as there's a whole forum about them, problems with licencing and advice on how to appeal decisions

Thank you. I will go there now.

Edited by Yury Muzlanov, 16 April 2012 - 03:33 PM.

[Lord Vader]

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[MacGregor]

Does legal aid apply in Scotland?

Yes it does. The Scottish Legal Aid Board is a good place to start for those wanting to know more.