Just got a completely panic phone call from my friend saying she thinks she's in trouble...I'm not sure what to answer, so seeing what other people on here think.
She was accelerating towards a cross junction, with the traffic lights green, she didn't want to miss them. The buildings on either side of this cross junction are near the street, and quite high so therefore obstruct vision either way.
She went straight across the junction, not hearing sirens and went straight in front of a police van, forcing it to slam on it's brake and a few choice words from the police officer.
It happened to another friend not long ago and they were taken to court for careless driving and obstructing a police officer.
What do you think her chances are of getting reported to the PF?
This did not actually happen to me before anyone presumes haha..
Obstruction?
Started by
Scot
, Mar 26 2012 10:34 PM
17 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:35 PM
Accelerating at a green light to catch it is never normally a good idea...
Her chances are probably low if i'm honest, the "Choice words" from the officer probably saved her.
Her chances are probably low if i'm honest, the "Choice words" from the officer probably saved her.
Edited by Mayday, 26 March 2012 - 10:36 PM.
#3
Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:40 PM
Not saying I condone "Speeding up to catch the lights"
But surely the officer driving shouln't have gone through the lights (assuming red for him) without ensuring it was safe to do so... I'm not a serving officer(and hence this is an MOP's opinion), but I thought police on blues were meant to treat it as a Give Way situation?
Not seeing the specific junction and situation it's hard to say.
Await an educated response.
But surely the officer driving shouln't have gone through the lights (assuming red for him) without ensuring it was safe to do so... I'm not a serving officer(and hence this is an MOP's opinion), but I thought police on blues were meant to treat it as a Give Way situation?
Not seeing the specific junction and situation it's hard to say.
Await an educated response.
Edited by boodeny, 26 March 2012 - 10:45 PM.
#4
Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:43 PM
That's what I thought, the officer should have slowed to assess the corner, maybe not.
I told her it could be a long wait until the officer comes on shift again tomorrow night to find out. Think it largely depends on the officer, good mood/bad mood at the time
I told her it could be a long wait until the officer comes on shift again tomorrow night to find out. Think it largely depends on the officer, good mood/bad mood at the time
#5
Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:44 PM
just in case...
Our standard disclaimer: This forum is not intended as a legal advice drop-in centre. PoliceSpecials.com disclaims any and all responsibility or liability for the accuracy, content, completeness, legality, reliability, operability or availability of information or material on this site, including - but not limited to - the documents available in the 'Reference Library' and 'Downloads' areas.
Please note that comments and advice given here with the best of intentions by the host, moderators or other users of the forum may not be correct, and that any advice given, in particular advice on the law and its application, is no substitute for personal legal advice from a solicitor.
Our standard disclaimer: This forum is not intended as a legal advice drop-in centre. PoliceSpecials.com disclaims any and all responsibility or liability for the accuracy, content, completeness, legality, reliability, operability or availability of information or material on this site, including - but not limited to - the documents available in the 'Reference Library' and 'Downloads' areas.
Please note that comments and advice given here with the best of intentions by the host, moderators or other users of the forum may not be correct, and that any advice given, in particular advice on the law and its application, is no substitute for personal legal advice from a solicitor.
#7
Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:13 PM
It might be a case of careless driving, but more information (or preferably a video!) about the incident would be needed to make that judgement.
I can't see how it would be obstructing a constable in the execution of their duty, since the obstruction must be willfull. (http://www.legislati...6/16/section/89)
I can't see how it would be obstructing a constable in the execution of their duty, since the obstruction must be willfull. (http://www.legislati...6/16/section/89)
#8
Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:20 PM
It might be a case of careless driving, but more information (or preferably a video!) about the incident would be needed to make that judgement.
I can't see how it would be obstructing a constable in the execution of their duty, since the obstruction must be willfull. (http://www.legislati...6/16/section/89)
bearing in mind mcscotland is from scotland, and the offence here is
"Any person who assaults, resists, obstructs, molests or hinders a constable in the execution of his duty or a person assisting a constable in the execution of his duty"
Section 41 (1) (a) of the Police (Scotland) Act 1967
http://www.legislati...7/77/section/41
#9
Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:05 AM
Can't see there being a massive problem really. From my understanding (although I have no Police driving permit), blues + twos doesn't provide a "right of way" that other road users must grant them as such, it means they're not subject to the Road Traffic Act, with the only exception being that they still cannot cross solid white lines. I believe that it simply means they will not be prosecuted for breaking the rules, provided that they justify their actions.
This, at least, is my understanding of the E&W rules. Scotland is Scotland and differences apply.
In this case, your friend (or you) had right of way if the lights were green. Sure, she should've been observant enough to hear the Police coming, but the Officer driving should equally have noted her approach to the junction, and their right of way.
This, at least, is my understanding of the E&W rules. Scotland is Scotland and differences apply.
In this case, your friend (or you) had right of way if the lights were green. Sure, she should've been observant enough to hear the Police coming, but the Officer driving should equally have noted her approach to the junction, and their right of way.
#10
Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:17 AM
As Adamski says. Could be a bit of both. Accelerating to a green light is not the way to approach a junction, so she's at fault there - especially if viewing was restricted by buildings. No defence, really. Being aware that lights could change, she should have approached and crossed them with caution. The Highway Code says that on green you may proceed if the way is clear, not jam your foot to the floor because it says go, oblivious to the surrounding conditions. One can't assume other traffic has stopped on red, and that's becoming truer and truer these days.
Nonetheless, I would also suggest the approaching police car, proceeding on red, should have been cogniscant of the fact someone could have been going through on green which, I imagine, being highly-trained drivers, they would have taken into consideration.
I'd not want to pre-judge, but it could possibly be without due care and attention on her part, especially if the police were on blues and twos and she has no defence due to partial hearing, although it could be argued she had the right of way. Bottom line is that for all parties, when driving, you should be aware of all conditions and to expect the unexpected, not just wrap yourself in a cocoon all of your own
Nonetheless, I would also suggest the approaching police car, proceeding on red, should have been cogniscant of the fact someone could have been going through on green which, I imagine, being highly-trained drivers, they would have taken into consideration.
I'd not want to pre-judge, but it could possibly be without due care and attention on her part, especially if the police were on blues and twos and she has no defence due to partial hearing, although it could be argued she had the right of way. Bottom line is that for all parties, when driving, you should be aware of all conditions and to expect the unexpected, not just wrap yourself in a cocoon all of your own
#11
Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:50 AM
This is so true where I live, I now always check that there are no cars coming through the junction even if my light is green especially if mine light has only just gone green.As Adamski says. Could be a bit of both. Accelerating to a green light is not the way to approach a junction, so she's at fault there - especially if viewing was restricted by buildings. No defence, really. Being aware that lights could change, she should have approached and crossed them with caution. The Highway Code says that on green you may proceed if the way is clear, not jam your foot to the floor because it says go, oblivious to the surrounding conditions. One can't assume other traffic has stopped on red, and that's becoming truer and truer these days.
The junction at the end of my estate regularly sees cars jumping the red light.
#12
Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:44 AM
Yeah that's true. The only thing that is worrying her is that another friend did exactly the same thing and they got reported for it. To be honest, if it did go to the PF, I don't think they'd have much of a case, as the officer is probably just as much in the wrong as she was.
#13
Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:51 AM
Should be in first gear and treating a red light as a give-way strictly speaking!
#14
Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:30 AM
Should be in first gear and treating a red light as a give-way strictly speaking!
Why first gear?
I would say if there was that much restricted view the officer was obviously driving safely otherwise they would have collided.
I'm guessing she's went through the light at excessive speed hence the words of advice, why didn't she see or hear the blues and twos? It could possibly be careless but I would never push for that, I highly doubt anything more will come of it.
#15
Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:11 PM
Scotland or not, the police driver (as Indiana Jones said) should have treated the red light as a give way. Not sure about 1st gear though. But definitely a give way.
The driver proceeding through a green aspect had right of way no matter how many flashing lights and loud noises were coming from another direction.
Also, just a minor correction of Adamski, although I'm sure this isn't exactly what he meant...
Police & other emergency vehicles on a blue light run, are very much subject to the Road Traffic Act. The only real exceptions being, we can go to the right of keep left bollards, exceed the posted speed limit, and treat red ATS as a give way.
Every other aspect of the RTA remains fully in force.
And moved to 'It's the law: Scotland'
The driver proceeding through a green aspect had right of way no matter how many flashing lights and loud noises were coming from another direction.
Also, just a minor correction of Adamski, although I'm sure this isn't exactly what he meant...
Police & other emergency vehicles on a blue light run, are very much subject to the Road Traffic Act. The only real exceptions being, we can go to the right of keep left bollards, exceed the posted speed limit, and treat red ATS as a give way.
Every other aspect of the RTA remains fully in force.
And moved to 'It's the law: Scotland'
#16
Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:38 PM
Why first gear?
Might just be what they teach in my force?? Someone else would need to confirm that though. I guess it helps to ensure that people don't blast through red lights and cause accidents with other road users who have right of way.
#17
Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:20 AM
Blue lights are to aid the progress of an emergency vehicle not a god given right to scream through a junction foot to the floor and expect everyone to starburst ot of your way. Going through a red ATS is a risky manouvre and should always be handled carefully with the consideration that a vehicle may not have seen you or you may not have seen it (think biker!). I know a few blue light drivers that have had bumps at junctions having gone through a red ATS and they have been the ones at fault. Drive to arrive!
#18
Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:25 PM
Yeah that's true. The only thing that is worrying her is that another friend did exactly the same thing and they got reported for it. To be honest, if it did go to the PF, I don't think they'd have much of a case, as the officer is probably just as much in the wrong as she was.
Just to play devils advocate here. Are you sure your friend isn't perhaps exaggerating her part? I've personally not seen a driver "have words" in a situation like the above as several folk have already mentioned, any blue light driver would (ahem *should*) know that they don't have the right of way at red lights and in my experience expect Mrs Biggins to come bumbling through oblivious. Not saying this is the case, but perhaps your friend accelerated to catch a light that had changed to amber and crossed the junction just on red to find her self in the path of an emergency vehicle on a green?
0 user(s) are browsing this forum
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
