31 replies to this topic

[caveat_civis]

"Private cash needed to boost roads network, says David Cameron"

David Cameron has called for an "urgent" increase in private investment to improve England's road network.
He said tolls for new roads were one option, alongside attracting more money from pension funds and other investors.
Work was also needed to relieve gridlock by widening "pinch points" and allowing traffic to use motorway hard shoulders, the prime minister said.

But Labour said it would be "wrong" to "load extra costs on ordinary families" to pay for improvements to roads.
In a speech on infrastructure, the prime minister said there was an urgent need to repair its "decades-long degradation" and to "build for the future with as much confidence and ambition as the Victorians once did".

Full article -- http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-17423693

Good idea?
I think I can guess what everyone will think of this latest privatisation suggestion, but fire away!

[Bart S]

Not liking the idea at all. It could mean us HATOs getting privatised as well and losing Civil Servant status!!

Edited by Bart S, 19 March 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[Rocket]

Brilliant idea, anyone who has used the M6 Toll road will know just how good they are. So you pay a few quid for using the road, but the cost is usually offset in the cost of fuel sitting idling in a traffic jam, also the much better condition of the road and shortened journey time.

[SuperSC]

The tories will try to privatise the air we breathe next...

[Sailor]

As long as they do not privatise any existing roads, I don't mind if some new roads are done this way.

However, this shouldn't stop the government from investing in roads.

[Rocket]

As long as they do not privatise any existing roads, I don't mind if some new roads are done this way.

However, this shouldn't stop the government from investing in roads.

The Tolls will either be additional lanes added to existing roads or will be additional new roads, they will not be used on existing roads.

[MikeBrum]

Brilliant idea, anyone who has used the M6 Toll road will know just how good they are. So you pay a few quid for using the road, but the cost is usually offset in the cost of fuel sitting idling in a traffic jam, also the much better condition of the road and shortened journey time.

AJ and me know what the M6 toll is like when we turn onto junction T1 by accident from M42 and paid £5.50 for a one mile stretch of it.

[Damsel]

The Tolls will either be additional lanes added to existing roads or will be additional new roads, they will not be used on existing roads.

At least, not until the government realise how much money they're missing out on by not charging us to get home from work.

[Rocket]

AJ and me know what the M6 toll is like when we turn onto junction T1 by accident from M42 and paid £5.50 for a one mile stretch of it.

How did you turn onto it by accident?

[David]

Brilliant idea, anyone who has used the M6 Toll road will know just how good they are. So you pay a few quid for using the road, but the cost is usually offset in the cost of fuel sitting idling in a traffic jam, also the much better condition of the road and shortened journey time.

But how much is paid in car tax and petrol tax and income tax and a whole myriad of other taxes already eh?

I'm against this idea as you might imagine. Like most things in the UK, will motoring become a rich man's privilege?

That said, I'd rather see the abolition of the joke of the 'road fund licence' (or whatever it's morphed into now) with an increase in petrol. That way nobody can avoid the tax as so many thousands do now, and there is a proportionate amount spent on motoring according to use. Before people say 'but what about sales reps and truckers', well, you can't tell me technology doesn't exist whereby that usage can't be calculated for a discount/rebate.

The age-old argument. If they want to reduce car usage and free up roads, then do something about the shockingly high cost of public transport.

[caveat_civis]

But how much is paid in car tax and petrol tax and income tax and a whole myriad of other taxes already eh?

I'm against this idea as you might imagine. Like most things in the UK, will motoring become a rich man's privilege?

That said, I'd rather see the abolition of the joke of the 'road fund licence' (or whatever it's morphed into now) with an increase in petrol. That way nobody can avoid the tax as so many thousands do now, and there is a proportionate amount spent on motoring according to use. Before people say 'but what about sales reps and truckers', well, you can't tell me technology doesn't exist whereby that usage can't be calculated for a discount/rebate.

The age-old argument. If they want to reduce car usage and free up roads, then do something about the shockingly high cost of public transport.

Completely agree David, you saved me the bother of having to type it all out!

[Rocket]

But how much is paid in car tax and petrol tax and income tax and a whole myriad of other taxes already eh?

I'm against this idea as you might imagine. Like most things in the UK, will motoring become a rich man's privilege?

That said, I'd rather see the abolition of the joke of the 'road fund licence' (or whatever it's morphed into now) with an increase in petrol. That way nobody can avoid the tax as so many thousands do now, and there is a proportionate amount spent on motoring according to use. Before people say 'but what about sales reps and truckers', well, you can't tell me technology doesn't exist whereby that usage can't be calculated for a discount/rebate.

The age-old argument. If they want to reduce car usage and free up roads, then do something about the shockingly high cost of public transport.

Public transport is shockingly expensive because it is now actually shockingly expensive to travel however you choose to make your journey, that is to do with the price of fuel/energy.

Personally I will never use public transport unless I am going to a place in London that does not have a space to park my car, so then I will take the train/tube/buses and detest every second of it.

There is a choice here though, if you don't want to pay for the Toll roads then you can stay on the public roads, nobody is forcing anyone to pay to use them.

[MikeBrum]

How did you turn onto it by accident?

When you're driving up the M42 after junction 8 with the M6, towards 9 if you get in one lane it's M42 (N) the other lane is M6 Toll. Easy to do No way back!

[Burnie]

When you're driving up the M42 after junction 8 with the M6, towards 9 if you get in one lane it's M42 (N) the other lane is M6 Toll. Easy to do No way back!

And not incredibly well sign-posted either...

A few times i've instinctively gone to do what i thought was staying on the M42 and only realised my mistake when i've seen the little green line on my sat nav going the other way...

[Radman]

Tories eh? Let's just privatise everything - it's no longer their problem...

I'm against this idea...

[MacGregor]

Politicians eh? Let's just privatise everything - it's no longer their problem...

I'm against this idea...

I fixed that for you. Labour governments seem to be pretty good at privatising things too.

[Damsel]

I fixed that for you. Labour governments seem to be pretty good at privatising things too.

Really? After the last Tory government I didn't think we had any proper nationalised industry left to sell. They must have missed one.

But this lot may have found a way around that by privatising the very infrastructure of the country. What will be next I wonder?

[Damsel]

Let's take a look at the major privatisations that have happened in the UK.


British Telecom. Privatised. 1984. Tory government.

Trustee Savings Bank (TSB). Privatised. 1985. Tory government.

British Gas. Tell Sid we've been Privatised. 1986. Tory government.

British Petroleum. Privatised. 1987. Tory government.

British Airways. Privatised. 1987. Tory government.

British Steel. Privatised. 1988. Tory government.

British Water. Privatised. 1989. Tory government.


By 1990 42 Nationalised industries had been sold by the Tories.


C.E.G.B. Was split in 1990 into National Power and PowerGen (the suppliers) and National Grid, the power distribution network.
National Power and Powergen. Privatised. 1991. Tory government.

British Rail. Privatised. 1993. Tory government.

British Coal/National Coal Board. Privatised. 1994. Tory government.

National Grid. Privatised. 1995. Tory government.


All in all around 50 Nationalised industries were sold by the Tories, and what's more they sold it to us, the people that already owned it. That must surely go down in history as the greatest con trick ever.


There's a trend here, have you spotted it?

[MacGregor]

I never suggested the Tories didn't nationalise anything, I merely suggested that Labour governments have done their fair share of privatisation as well. You have not demonstrated otherwise with either of those two posts so I'm not really sure what exactly you are trying to prove (other than your rabid dislike of the Conservative party).

Edited by CharlieJulietMike, 22 March 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[Damsel]

Go on then CJM. Tell me, what did the Labour party privatise? (not Nationalise, that's the other way around)

Oh, and I don't have a "rabid dislike" of the Tory party especially, I don't like anyone that lies to me.

[Rocket]

Gordon Brown privatised all our gold reserves by flogging the lot, I think he wins.

[Damsel]

Gordon Brown privatised all our gold reserves by flogging the lot, I think he wins.

I'll grant you he did that, but the last time I checked, gold was not a nationalised industry.

[MacGregor]

Go on then CJM. Tell me, what did the Labour party privatise? (not Nationalise, that's the other way around)

Oh, and I don't have a "rabid dislike" of the Tory party especially, I don't like anyone that lies to me.

I'm not sure I see the point in telling you what you already know but I will anyway. The two most obvious examples I could think of are Qinetiq and Actis.

[Damsel]

Well, Labour sold off 37.5% of Qinetic, just over 1/3. The government only held 56.5% of the shares anyway, so it was never really a truly nationalised industry.

Actis is slightly different in that Labour sold 60% of it (raising £7billion I think it was) but the current government are planning to, or have, sold off the remaining 40%.

But the Actis deal still pales in comparison to the list that the Tories sold off pre '97.



I should point out that I don't agree with privatisation of UK National assets no matter which party sells them.

[MacGregor]

Can we at least agree that Labour has been involved in privatisation (which was my original point and one I have seen no cogent rebuttal of) regardless of any comparison with the Conservatives?