34 replies to this topic

[Sam Vimes]

Well with the release of Winsor Part 1 and 2.... though I would run this again and see if anyone has changed their mind. Baring in mind Winsor hasn't been agreed in full (but lets face it, 99% of Part 2 will be implemented), let's assume Winsor is taken as read. Before answering, a few things to consider;

• You now need 3 A-levels or equivalent or service as a Special/PCSO, etc.
  
• Your starting salary will be £19,000 or £21,000 depending on who you are.
  
• You may find yourself being led by an Inspector with zero time in as a PC, who hasn't joined to be a Cop.
  
• You still have no right to industrial action.
  
• You can be made redundant.
  
• You have to work until you're 60 (meaning the youngest PC at 18 will do 42 years before getting a pension).
  
• Final salary scheme will be gone.
  
• Pension contributions gone up.
  
• If you find yourself sick or injured and unable to return to full duties, you run the risk of being kicked out.
  
• An annual fitness test (not a problem for me, but some think it is)
  
• Increased working with privatised agencies such as G4S

Obviously Winsor is far more in depth but theres a few salient points in a nutshell. Here's the old topic for people interested in the results.

http://www.policespe...__fromsearch__1

[Transducer09]

Before the government announced these two reports and their cuts, I had a massive ambition to join the police. I knew it wouldn't be all what it is seen as on "The Bill" and that there would be a lot of rubbish to put up with at times, but it was still a career that made me think "Yeah, I would love to do that!".

Now, most of the attractions of the job are being flushed down the toilet. The perhaps biggest perk of "Job security" will no longer exist if Part 2 goes ahead (funny how there's still no right to strike ) and officers would no longer be lead by experienced Inspectors, but by those who could be potentially as young as 23 with minute or no experience. I'll be honest, these are the two that I would hate to be accepted, but as Sam says, probably 99% will go ahead. Honestly, if the Fed can't argue a good case and actually win it, what is the point of you guys having it?

I feel angry that there has been very little information about Winsor's sources and that he has been very careful in how he writes so that he can, in my opinion, confuse the living day lights out of people. Is he saying ALL applicants (specials, PCSO's and external) will need 3 A levels or equivalent or that that is another pathway in besides Specials or PCSO? Also what happened when he was accused of faking officer's names in Part 1? Seemed to get off that lightly. I really feel sorry for anyone is an officer at the minute, this isn't cost saving, this is pure attack! First it seemed Winsor was just targeting serving officers but we now all see it's aspiring one's too. Are the government seriously trying to destroy our police service?

Despite all my thoughts, I still seem to be attracted to the job. Maybe it's a thing of I don't want the government to ruin my ambitions - hopefully they'll be out in a couple of years and we'll have a party that actually cares about this country. In a way I'm glad there's a special pathway in, it gives me a chance to see the role up front and decided if it's a career for me or not. All I'd say is, May, if you think by hiring this man you are doing your party any favours, think again! Rant over...

Edited by Millman, 16 March 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[Stratos]

If you asked me a month ago I would've said yes. The answer today is no. And it'll probably remain that way.

[MRF@1972]

Will the Windsor report apply to forces like the CNC?

[Gene Geney]

Hopefully the Scottish Police Service will chin Windsor 2 off just like they did Windsor 1!

[Sam Vimes]

Hopefully the Scottish Police Service will chin Windsor 2 off just like they did Windsor 1!

Er I hate to say this, but Winsor has a pretty good chance of being implemented 'oop North too in my opinion. Salmond may have said he won't bring it in but he's also said that if he doesn't go along with the majority of changes then Westminster will reduce the budget to compensate, forcing him to make the changes anyway.

At best Scotland will just be a little bit behind the rest of us, but these changes will come to you.... The money Government will 'save' is far too much. Scotland doesn't magically care about you as cops i'm afraid... it'll come, i'd bet my house on it.

[fruitandveg]

I've reached a bit of a cross roads in life. Having been a special for 2 years I was very sure I wanted to become a PC. Now? Well, I'm not sure of anything now.

[Police Constable 1]

I've reached a bit of a cross roads in life. Having been a special for 2 years I was very sure I wanted to become a PC. Now? Well, I'm not sure of anything now.

Whats changed thats made you change your mind?

despite what certain people are saying, these are only "proposals" they are not a certainty

[Nelson]

Er I hate to say this, but Winsor has a pretty good chance of being implemented 'oop North too in my opinion. Salmond may have said he won't bring it in but he's also said that if he doesn't go along with the majority of changes then Westminster will reduce the budget to compensate, forcing him to make the changes anyway.

At best Scotland will just be a little bit behind the rest of us, but these changes will come to you.... The money Government will 'save' is far too much. Scotland doesn't magically care about you as cops i'm afraid... it'll come, i'd bet my house on it.

I'd be prepared to bet that they won't.

Kenny MacAskill has already stated his plans for saving money in Scottish policing will not come from Mr Winsors recommendation. Our own programme of reform is already underway.

Changes may come in the future, but they won't be Winsors, the SNP rely too much on their pro-Police stance to back down now.

[Subzero2003]

I've reached a bit of a cross roads in life. Having been a special for 2 years I was very sure I wanted to become a PC. Now? Well, I'm not sure of anything now.

I am in a very very similar position to you and I am feeling exactly the same. Don't really know what to do tbh. I'm in a stable job at the moment, work 9-5, have weekends to myself, love the people i work with and get to travel around the world.

Why am I even thinking about joining the police?! Because i'm bored. I've always been someone who's enjoyed getting out and about and hate being couped up in an office most of the year. I've wanted to join the police for the last 6-7 years.

But now these Windsor Proposals have been made, i'm very confused at the moment about what I should do.

[Steve Collins]

I have a lot of admiration for you lads doing the job today it certainly isn't the job I joined nor is policing the way it used to be. I came out on injury after 20 years if I were a young man again I'd look elsewhere I couldn't put up with the BS.

[Straightjacket]

I just missed out on a number of the benefits that were available back in the day such as housing allowance etc. Gone are the social clubs/bars, gone are most of the single persons accomodation (force dependant).

Police Forces (as they were back then) and joining them were seen as a career for life something to be proud of, and I think that the way you were provided for reflected that. I think that within the Police Service as it is now, this is much more of a job with the mindset of a full career eradicated by lack of facilities, support and dwindling reasons/benefits to stay the length.

Perhaps respect for the role overall from the public is making it more of a job rather than a revered career.

[ammo1234]

for me personally I would still join but that is just me personally. I love the doing the job to much to want to do anything else but I would not recommend it to anyone who didn't have a similar mindset, eg people who are interested but unsure.

[((TheShake))]

It is still my intention to join up as a regular when given the chance. I know that they are making life for officers more difficult and putting up barriers which would make people not want to join up. I think if you wanted to be an officer before the Winsor review then why wouldn't you want to be an officer after the review?

[Bobby-Bali]

Seriously?? ^ are you honestly that blind? Ive been a pc for not long now, and looking at winsor 2 im scared. i will be looking for another job without a doubt if it is all put through.

For those who say its only proposals, we said that for winsor 1...look what happened there.

[((TheShake))]

I suppose that being an SC will allow me to see the changes that happen and have a bit more in depth knowledge before taking the plunge.

[MacGregor]

Er I hate to say this, but Winsor has a pretty good chance of being implemented 'oop North too in my opinion. Salmond may have said he won't bring it in but he's also said that if he doesn't go along with the majority of changes then Westminster will reduce the budget to compensate, forcing him to make the changes anyway.

At best Scotland will just be a little bit behind the rest of us, but these changes will come to you.... The money Government will 'save' is far too much. Scotland doesn't magically care about you as cops i'm afraid... it'll come, i'd bet my house on it.

I'll bite. When do you reckon we'll see Winsor's recommendations (more or less in full) implemented in Scotland then?

[Bobby-Bali]

I suppose that being an SC will allow me to see the changes that happen and have a bit more in depth knowledge before taking the plunge.

not really it wont. i have learned very very quickly that being a pc is a world away from that of specials.
I was doing 100+ hours a month and yet the worlds are nothing alike

[Sierra Papa 88]

not really it wont. i have learned very very quickly that being a pc is a world away from that of specials.
I was doing 100+ hours a month and yet the worlds are nothing alike

I agree with this completely.

All these Specials saying that they will join up regardless really have to idea, and it really winds me up.

SC-PC are miles and miles apart.

When your a SC you think your the dogs danglies, when out on patrol and feel that great sense of pride when in uniform and look at some regulars and just wish you were them, thinking how brilliant the job is and think every time your on duty ' yeah this is what I want to do for a living'

I did all the above when I was a Special. As a PC I sometimes dread going into work now where as before I coukdnt wait for my rest days to be over so I could get back to work, now I wish they were longer.

It is not the same job, no matter how much people say it is.

[((TheShake))]

You're right, we (or at least I) have no idea. One of the reasons I joined this forum was to become more enlightened and possibly give my (occasionally somewhat naive) views across. There is no intention to wind anyone up.

[Sierra Papa 88]

You're right, we (or at least I) have no idea. One of the reasons I joined this forum was to become more enlightened and possibly give my (occasionally somewhat naive) views across. There is no intention to wind anyone up.

And I welcome your views IT-SC this after all is a discussion forum and am always happy to back up my points that I make.

I will be the first to admit that I too was very nieve as an SC, I thought the job would be all blue lights and fights but unfortunately it's not, I'm more of a social worker than a police officer really.

Please don't take my post as an attack on yours I wasn't referring to you that it was you or or post that was winding me up. I just get frustrated because I've seen both sides of the fence and now that I'm a PC and can look back at reflect on things how nieve I really was.

And it winds me up when I see posts from SC's the same views I know I would personally have and would post if I was still one, about carrying on as normal and filling in for the regs because I did desperately wantto do the job.

I wouldn't know any different because I didn't know what was happening from the regs point of view as far as I was concerned I would turn up, kit up, and head out, have fights, foot chases, make arrests, drive around on blues and have a bloody good time and if someone said to me of the regs went on strike would you continue my answer would of definetly been yes.

However now as a reg and now see excatly what goes on on the Monday morning early shifts and the Sunday night, night shifts my attitude and view has changed. As specials don't experience this and have a very blinkered view of policing ( as I did!) it annoys the regulars when reading some of the stuff in this thread.

I now await the flurry of replies this will get and wait for someone to tell me how wrong I am!

[MRF@1972]

Hi Subzero2003, I think you should stick to what your doing, there aren't too many jobs that allow you to travel the world, and you do get on with your colleagues.
If you join the Police you won't get the travel and you might hate your colleagues.

Hope you don't mind me saying, just do what's best for yourself.

MRF

[Police Constable 1]

And I welcome your views IT-SC this after all is a discussion forum and am always happy to back up my points that I make.

I will be the first to admit that I too was very nieve as an SC, I thought the job would be all blue lights and fights but unfortunately it's not, I'm more of a social worker than a police officer really.

Please don't take my post as an attack on yours I wasn't referring to you that it was you or or post that was winding me up. I just get frustrated because I've seen both sides of the fence and now that I'm a PC and can look back at reflect on things how nieve I really was.

And it winds me up when I see posts from SC's the same views I know I would personally have and would post if I was still one, about carrying on as normal and filling in for the regs because I did desperately wantto do the job.

I wouldn't know any different because I didn't know what was happening from the regs point of view as far as I was concerned I would turn up, kit up, and head out, have fights, foot chases, make arrests, drive around on blues and have a bloody good time and if someone said to me of the regs went on strike would you continue my answer would of definetly been yes.

However now as a reg and now see excatly what goes on on the Monday morning early shifts and the Sunday night, night shifts my attitude and view has changed. As specials don't experience this and have a very blinkered view of policing ( as I did!) it annoys the regulars when reading some of the stuff in this thread.

I now await the flurry of replies this will get and wait for someone to tell me how wrong I am!

Your not wrong at all, I think though that what your saying and what fromittosc are different, I got the impression he was saying about the winsor changes coming in and that being an SC will allow him to see them implemented, I dont think he was saying that both jobs are the same

Its good to see that people are still wanting to join despite the potential changes, its still a good job

[SkinSte]

This topic could just be summed up as "The job's f**ked", which is a phrase I hear every shift. It's also something I heard every shift as an SC long before Winsor. I reckon people were saying it 10 years ago, 15, 20 etc. People who haven't joined will be saying it in 10 years time probably too.

[fruitandveg]

Having considered it further, I think there is still a possibility I will apply to be a regular officer in a couple of years time. However, I will always have a backup plan - something that if it turns out to be a crock of the proverbial, I can make ends meet. Still, the prospect of joining is a long way off and so much could change in that time. Uncertainty and confusion reigns supreme currently!

As stated, the gap between SC to PC is massive, or so I'm told by persons who have crossed the canyon.

The sad thing is Windsor WILL be implemented, either in full or virtually everything. And it will be done despite all protestations.