27 replies to this topic

[pmtts]

"Kettling" tactics used by the Metropolitan police to contain crowds in 2001 were lawful, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled.

The controversial method was used during anti-globalisation demonstrations in London on 1 May 2001.

Police blocked off Oxford Circus and corralled those inside for seven hours.

The court said there had been no violation of Article 5 - the right to liberty and security - of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Three people - George Black, a Greek national from Australia; Bronwyn Lowenthal and Peter O'Shea - who had nothing to do with the demonstration, took the case to Europe claiming they were "deprived of their liberty".

They were joined by Lois Austin, from Basildon, Essex, who had been taking in the protest.

The court said: "The police had imposed the cordon to isolate and contain a large crowd in dangerous and volatile conditions.

"This had been the least intrusive and most effective means to protect the public from violence. Although the police tried to start dispersing the crowd throughout the afternoon, they had been unable to do so as the danger had persisted."

The House of Lords had earlier ruled kettling on that day had been "necessary, proportionate and lawful".

Earlier this year, in a separate case, the Met has won its appeal against a High Court ruling over kettling tactics used during G20 demonstrations in 2009.

In that case Hannah McClure, a student, and Josh Moos, a campaigner for Plane Stupid, challenged the legality of restraint methods used against them in April 2009 when they were contained by officers in Bishopsgate in the City of London.


BBC

[SBG]

OOOHH! A good decision from ECHR!

[pmtts]

OOOHH! A good decision from ECHR!

The Full judgement..

CASE OF AUSTIN AND OTHERS v. THE UNITED KINGDOM

[Million]

I can imagine being pretty miffed if I was caught in a kettle when I wasn't involved in the protest...

[Burnsy2023]

Bloody Europe meddling in our affairs, it's political correctness gone wrong, why are we still in the EU etc.

Oh wait...

[alcockell]

Could someone advise what processes are being put in place to protect the more vulnerable of us in case we're inadvertently caught up? I am autistic, and am terrified of this ruling - that I may end up in complete panic and shutdown if I was innocently shopping or whatever, turned the wrong way and ended up imprisoned in a hostile crowd with no way of getting out.

I rely on the police to keep me safe, but might end up being terrified of them if this ever happened...

[Burnsy2023]

Could someone advise what processes are being put in place to protect the more vulnerable of us in case we're inadvertently caught up? I am autistic, and am terrified of this ruling - that I may end up in complete panic and shutdown if I was innocently shopping or whatever, turned the wrong way and ended up imprisoned in a hostile crowd with no way of getting out.

I rely on the police to keep me safe, but might end up being terrified of them if this ever happened...

Well there is the obvious advice of keep away from protest areas on days of demonstration. If you are genuinely worried and have got caught up, talk to a SGT on the frontline and see if he/she will make an exception for you.

[alcockell]

Well there is the obvious advice of keep away from protest areas on days of demonstration. If you are genuinely worried and have got caught up, talk to a SGT on the frontline and see if he/she will make an exception for you.

OK. Something tells me I'm not going to be going to London AT ALL for the forseeable...

Is it still legal to quietly sign a petition?

[Winkworth]

I can imagine being pretty miffed if I was caught in a kettle when I wasn't involved in the protest...

This would be handy gadget to have just in case one goes shopping at John Lewis, Oxford Street and is innocently caught inside a kettle.

[ActivistApp]

Or this:

www.sukey.org


;-)

[richr]

Well there is the obvious advice of keep away from protest areas on days of demonstration. If you are genuinely worried and have got caught up, talk to a SGT on the frontline and see if he/she will make an exception for you.

Or, indeed, one of the new 'protest liaison officers' the met have started to deploy. A better idea would be to simply avoid the big, protesting crowd that's likely to be kettled. I guarantee it'll be pretty easy to spot!

As pointed out earlier, you could get the Sukey app but that's probably more useful if you're actively dodging a containment. I'd simply follow @CO11MetPolice on that there twitter, myself.

Demonstration routes are agreed in advance, and there are always going to be obvious points where Stuff Might Happen (Whitehall, Parliament Square, Wesminster Bridge) - it'll be pretty tricky to just blunder into a containment unless we're talking about spontaneous public disorder, and even then the large mob will probably give it away. In London, you can turn a couple of corners and it'll be like nothing is going on!

[SBG]

This is a good tactic used in the right way, which has been used for years - think of the football bubbles with fans etc.

[Hades]

Bloody Europe meddling in our affairs, it's political correctness gone wrong, why are we still in the EU etc.

Oh wait...

Interesting point (and frankly I don't really care either way about the ECHR and whether we're part of it), however the argument against here would obviously be that our courts had already ruled it was lawful - there shouldn't have been a need to go to Europe at huge expense.

[Shikari]

Finally. At least this can be put to rest...11 years later.

[Winkworth]

Well there is the obvious advice of keep away from protest areas on days of demonstration. If you are genuinely worried and have got caught up, talk to a SGT on the frontline and see if he/she will make an exception for you.

So, everything should just down in the West End on those days then, nobody goes to work, shops or visits and all residents should leave their homes?

[bensonby]

So, everything should just down in the West End on those days then, nobody goes to work, shops or visits and all residents should leave their homes?

Not at all: if you see a protest then move away if possible if you don't want to get involved. If you find yourself in the middle of a protest then move away if possible. If you see anyone that looks like they are, or could be about to cause trouble move away sharpish. Containments do not just spring up out of no-where. They actually take quite a while to put in place. If you are in a crowd and see people acting in a hostile manner then it is not that hard to put distance between them and yourselves and if you do it promptly then the chances are you will not be caught in a containment.

[ActivistApp]

If you are in a crowd and see people acting in a hostile manner then it is not that hard to put distance between them and yourselves and if you do it promptly then the chances are you will not be caught in a containment.

If only kettling was reserved for hostile protests ..... I guess we can dream.

[MerseyLLB]

If only kettling was reserved for hostile protests ..... I guess we can dream.

Define hostile?

Most protests I have had the misfortune to see the protestors seem to want to antagonise the police more than the target of their protest. This is evidenced usually by a huge space for them to stand in, however they choose to confront the police line on all sides.

The only entirely peaceful protest I have been to was a mothers with prams and wheelchair user protest at the lack of accessibility to Ealing Broadway Station. Two of us attended to check it out (low key), asked them not to block the station entrance, had a chat and a joke and then we left.

[ActivistApp]

Mersey - you answer your own question - you attended a protest in a low key and therefore unprovocative manner. I have seen a mothers and prams protest kettled in London.

All protest, by its very nature, is non 'peaceful'. I prefer to use the terms 'violent protest' and 'non-violent protest' to distinguish between the types of protest we experience. I used the term 'hostile' above to stay consistent with the language used by Bensonby in his previous post.

The issue I was trying to raise is this: regardless of ones views on kettling in general, kettling of non-violent protests is unnecessary, stupid and inexcusable. At best it causes harm to people exercising their legitimate right to protest, at worst it is the direct cause of escalation from non-violent protest to violent protest and riot.

[bensonby]

What a lot of people forget is that hundreds of protests take place every week in London without the need to use containments. The police are not using the tactic willy-nilly.

It has been found to be a lawful and proportionate tactic several times in several courts culminating in the ECHR.

I can't really see much more of a greater vindication. The police support protest but do no tolerate crime. That is as it is and as it should be.

[ActivistApp]

Bensonby - in general it seems we are in agreement - certainly I find very little your post #20 contentious.

The only place we disagree is over whether kettling is ever used 'willy-nilly'. I agree that it seems nonsensical for police to kettle a non-violent protest. My personal experience, however, is that it has been deployed recklessly and needlessly in the past. The HMIC report last year suggested a similar conclusion.

Perhaps the deployment decision has begun to change in favour of restraint more recently?

Here's hoping that as we move onwards and upwards gold command hears our views and continues to exercise restraint at kettling non-violent protests.

[TCambs]

"Can all the violent protestors step to the left, and all the peaceful ones step to the right please!"

[CmdKeen]

But what makes a protest "non violent"?

Should the police always wait before someone gets hurt before kettling? Especially if that means the situation is now more serious and the likely outcome worse than an earlier intervention.

Then there is the whole violent people who "aren't part of the protest" - I'm sorry but in that case the blame lies with those violent people not the police.

And finally why should it be only about violence? Kettling is legally allowed to prevent breaches of the peace, and they don't have to be violent. Again a good use of a kettle before the other illegal act occurs seems sensible, and proportionate, compared to the likely response once the other action occurs.
This is where I suspect the rub lies. You'd presumably dislike a kettle that were to stop UK Uncut activists before they could occupy Fortnum and Masons, block Westminster bridge and various other non-violent but none the less non agreed, and illegal, protest activities.

[callsign-kid]

Well you know the last protest I saw, the protesters behaved themselves. And whilst in a metal fenced area they could leave at any time and the area was in such a place they'd be safe (not exposed to traffic) have adequate room and not block the pavement up. They continued to behave themselves and were at no time contained as they could always leave the demonstration area. None were arrested, contained or even had to be touched by an officer. So what I'm begining to deduce here is that people will be treated by police according to the way they behave. Well I never.

[roger_that]

Kettling, why has this word that's invented by "activists" come into police use. It's not called that so why support it?