22 replies to this topic

[The Constable]

I am not a police officer........... Hell Im not even training. I am just an applicant so dont bite my head off lol

What happens if you are off duty and you get into a fight with someone or somebody hits you or pushes you? Do you arrest them for assault or the more specific offence of assaulting a police officer. Bearing in mind that you are off duty and even though yes you can become "on duty" at any-time and that with you are a constable at all times according to your oath.

So what is the actual offence committed?

[Wrighty112]

You will have power to arrest for assualt etc... but since you are on your own, no radio/PPE/appointment i'd be thinking hard about my saftey....

If its safe and you want to you can arrest but best action may be a tatical retreat and diling 101/999 which even is more appropiate at the time and trying to put distance between me and whoever is attacking me.

Edited by Wrighty112, 14 March 2012 - 10:48 PM.

[Ontopofahill!]

1331764774[/url]' post='2217872']
I am not a police officer........... Hell Im not even training. I am just an applicant so dont bite my head off lol

What happens if you are off duty and you get into a fight with someone or somebody hits you or pushes you? Do you arrest them for assault or the more specific offence of assaulting a police officer. Bearing in mind that you are off duty and even though yes you can become "on duty" at any-time and that with you are a constable at all times according to your oath.

So what is the actual offence committed?

It would be a standard assault (be it a s.39/47/20/18) once you identify yourself and arrest the suspect and they continue to hit you, at that point does it become assault police.

[Sceptre]

Assault police specifies that you must be acting in the course of your duties at the time you were assaulted. If I was off-duty and saw an old lady being mugged, so dived in to arrest the mugger waving my warrant card and shouting POLICE and he punched me then that would be assault police. If I was down the pub getting hammered and pinched the shapely backside of a passing lady, so her husband decided to give me a smack then no that wouldn't be assault police, it would be me getting what I deserved.

Lots of assault police charges fall at the CPS hurdle or in court over disputes about whether the officer was actually acting in the course of his or her duties at the time or not. If you're ever in a position of arresting someone for assaulting yourself or one of your colleagues then it's always acceptable to simply arrest for plain old common or garden S39 assault as it eliminates the duty aspect entirely. If Assault police is appropriate that can be charged, if it isn't then the arrest is still lawful and you can consider common assault or another offence.

Edited by Sceptre, 14 March 2012 - 10:50 PM.

[OSGEssexSC]

• Until you pass out of your force, call the police, or you only have the power of citizens arrest which could cause more harm than good... (i.e. 3rd parties getting involved).
• If you get a good wack while you are off duty (see this link for definition), it'll be common assault and if you get a bad enough bruise, ABH. Worse would be GBH (etc).
• If you get a good wack while you are on duty (see this link for definition), it'll be assault police and if you get a bad enough bruise, ABH (etc see above).
• Assault on a police officer carries the same penalty as common assault (6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum).
• ABH only matters if it goes to crown, at mag's court ABH/common assault carry the same penalty.
• Obviously GBH is quite severe injury.

All offences against the person legislation can be found here and I've read it quite a few times

Edited by OSGEssexSC, 15 March 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[Shogy1]

You will have power to arrest for assualt etc... but since you are on your own, no radio/PPE/appointment i'd be thinking hard about my saftey....

If its safe and you want to you can arrest but best action may be a tatical retreat and diling 101/999 which even is more appropiate at the time and trying to put distance between me and whoever is attacking me.

I heard of a Borough Commander that did that once.. Didn't turn out so well..

[Obsidian_Eclipse]

To put it simply.. If your off duty and identify yourself as a police officer (and act accordingly with any police powers) then it is likely anyone assaulting you would commit an offence of 'assault police'. If your off duty and someone recognises you as being a police officer, i.e. they saw you on the beat Saturday night and its now Monday afternoon, and decide to assault you because they know your a cop then it would be 'assault police'. If your off duty and someone randomly decides to assault you then it would be an assault like any other.

[SBG]

To put it simply.. If your off duty and identify yourself as a police officer (and act accordingly with any police powers) then it is likely anyone assaulting you would commit an offence of 'assault police'. If your off duty and someone recognises you as being a police officer, i.e. they saw you on the beat Saturday night and its now Monday afternoon, and decide to assault you because they know your a cop then it would be 'assault police'. If your off duty and someone randomly decides to assault you then it would be an assault like any other.

Very clear +1

Also when you get back to the nick you can write your own statement

[Alex_101]

Something i discovered the other day is acting in execution with your duties means dealing with a crime.

For example if you're helping a landlord eject a trespasser on duty in full uniform and the trespasser decides to smack you one, then it's common assault and not assault police.
It's quite interesting.

[SBG]

Something i discovered the other day is acting in execution with your duties means dealing with a crime.

For example if you're helping a landlord eject a trespasser on duty in full uniform and the trespasser decides to smack you one, then it's common assault and not assault police.
It's quite interesting.

Not entirely sure I follow that

Section 89 Police Act 1996 states

89 Assaults on constables.E+W.
(1)Any person who assaults a constable in the execution of his duty, or a person assisting a constable in the execution of his duty, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both. .
(2)Any person who resists or wilfully obstructs a constable in the execution of his duty, or a person assisting a constable in the execution of his duty, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, or to both. .
(3)This section also applies to a constable who is a member of a police force maintained in Scotland or Northern Ireland when he is executing a warrant, or otherwise acting in England or Wales, by virtue of any enactment conferring powers on him in England and Wales.

So (my bold) it does not describe what the duty is.

I am sure that one of our legel eagles on here will be better placed to tell me if I have that wrong

[Alex_101]

The reasoning was that when assisting the landlord with the trespasser, since trespassing is not a crime, you are acting as a private citizen and not as a police officer.

I didn't quite follow either to be honest; hence i got the KEE question wrong.

[SkinSte]

You will have power to arrest for assualt etc... but since you are on your own, no radio/PPE/appointment i'd be thinking hard about my saftey....

If its safe and you want to you can arrest but best action may be a tatical retreat and diling 101/999 which even is more appropiate at the time and trying to put distance between me and whoever is attacking me.

He's already been assaulted, I think that his safety has already been compromised...

The reasoning was that when assisting the landlord with the trespasser, since trespassing is not a crime, you are acting as a private citizen and not as a police officer.

I didn't quite follow either to be honest; hence i got the KEE question wrong.

You have a duty to assist in ejections from licensed premises if asked to do so by the licencee. It's different to ejecting a 'simple' trespasser e.g. someone who has wandered mistakenly into a factory and then refuses to leave.

[Buck]

Oddly enough I was discussing this last night with a Reg.

He explained that simply being On Duty or identifying yourself as an officer would not result in it being Assault Police as you are not considered to be "Executing your duties". You must be acting in an official capaticy such as Arresting someone or using some Policing power or other.

E.g. Walking down the street in full uniform, some fella smacks you - Not Police Assault
E.g. Arresting someone and some other bloke comes over and hits you - Police Assualt

Also note (as per the quote above from SBG) that it applies to someone assisting a constable as well, so if your in a sticky situation and an MOP helps holding someone down for example, and they then get assualted, Assault Police also applies.

So in summary, you must both be identified as a Police Officer (badge out or On Duty) AND be "executing a duty". One or the other is not enough and would be standard Assault.

Therefore to answer the OP, standard assault not Police.

[Alex_101]

Perhaps landlord was the wrong word to use. Apologies.

The situation was a library and a person was being thrown out for trespass.
You are assaulted while trying to help.
This isn't assault police because trespass is not a crime?

[SkinSte]

Perhaps landlord was the wrong word to use. Apologies.

The situation was a library and a person was being thrown out for trespass.
You are assaulted while trying to help.
This isn't assault police because trespass is not a crime?

Ah. That's correct.

In reality, assault police vs common assault makes very little difference for your actions. The court may take a different view when sentencing though.

[Smiley Culture]

So in summary, you must both be identified as a Police Officer (badge out or On Duty) AND be "executing a duty". One or the other is not enough and would be standard Assault.

That's what I'd thought too - that it's whether you're recognised to be executing a specific police duty at the time that counts, rather than your just generally being a police officer.

Edited by Smiley Culture, 15 March 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[Police Constable 1]

To put it simply.. If your off duty and identify yourself as a police officer (and act accordingly with any police powers) then it is likely anyone assaulting you would commit an offence of 'assault police'. If your off duty and someone recognises you as being a police officer, i.e. they saw you on the beat Saturday night and its now Monday afternoon, and decide to assault you because they know your a cop then it would be 'assault police'. If your off duty and someone randomly decides to assault you then it would be an assault like any other.

With regards to the bold bit, why is that assault police? where is the officer executing his duty if he is off duty walking down the street?

[davidedward]

Perhaps landlord was the wrong word to use. Apologies.

The situation was a library and a person was being thrown out for trespass.
You are assaulted while trying to help.
This isn't assault police because trespass is not a crime?

can you trespass in a public place? i know this is probably one for another thread, but if the librarian said to you, "i don't want him in here, he's trouble", surely you have no power to 'eject' him?

[Prolixia]

Someone (ASDLegend?) recently posted on the difference between common assault and assault police and made the observation that the maximum penalty for each is exactly the same, but there was a greater chance of the assailant getting away with assault police because of the possibility of showing that an assaulted police officer was not carrying out his duty lawfully at the time. The suggestion was that assault police had only been introduced in order to provide an offence that was arrestable (back in the days where some offences weren't).

I recently arrested a guy for assault police and picked it because it best matched the scenario. However, after reading that post I wondered if there was actually any point at all in doing so.

There is also, of course, assault with intent to resist arrest which was also applicable to my scenario but which didn't spring to mind quite so readily. That has the benefit of being an either way offence (unlike assault and assault police) and may be subject to a higher fine.

[Prolixia]

can you trespass in a public place? i know this is probably one for another thread, but if the librarian said to you, "i don't want him in here, he's trouble", surely you have no power to 'eject' him?

A public place can still be owned by someone (who can tell you to get lost). A shop is a good example - the public have access by payment or otherwise (so it's a "public place") but it's owned by a person or a company and they (or their agents, for example members of staff) can tell you to leave (or indeed close and keep everyone out).

A street is rather different - there is probably all sorts of common law that preserves your right to walk down the street but ultimately there isn't really a landlord as such to tell you to clear off.

A library would lie somewhere between the two. It's more complicated because there is specific legislation that applies to libraries that enables bylaws to be made in respect of their premises and you would expect local authorities to provide bylaws that allow librarians to require members of the public to leave. However regardless the library premises would be occupied by a library authority and if their employees asked you to leave then I'm guessing the position wouldn't be that dissimilar to a member of staff in a shop kicking you out.

In terms of constables assisting the removal of a trespasser, the situation may well be different in libraries because of such local bylaws (i.e. you might have a duty/power to remove someone rather than acting in a dubious 'agent of the landlord' capacity).

[honestyvo]

To put it simply.. If your off duty and identify yourself as a police officer (and act accordingly with any police powers) then it is likely anyone assaulting you would commit an offence of 'assault police'. If your off duty and someone recognises you as being a police officer, i.e. they saw you on the beat Saturday night and its now Monday afternoon, and decide to assault you because they know your a cop then it would be 'assault police'. If your off duty and someone randomly decides to assault you then it would be an assault like any other.

I found this quite interesting.. from the above quote - what you are saying is.. if somebody knows you're a Police Officer (i.e. work colleague, acquaintance, neighbour etc) - regardless of whether you've identified yourself formally as one or not... and assaults you then its 'assault police' still?

[CmdKeen]

I found this quite interesting.. from the above quote - what you are saying is.. if somebody knows you're a Police Officer (i.e. work colleague, acquaintance, neighbour etc) - regardless of whether you've identified yourself formally as one or not... and assaults you then its 'assault police' still?

No, because you're not acting in the execution of your duties.

However if you could show they assaulted you because of your being an officer that would be a factor in the sentencing for common assault. Whether it was an aggravating or mitigating factor I will leave up to each reader's level of cynicism about the modern criminal justice system...

[honestyvo]

No, because you're not acting in the execution of your duties.

However if you could show they assaulted you because of your being an officer that would be a factor in the sentencing for common assault. Whether it was an aggravating or mitigating factor I will leave up to each reader's level of cynicism about the modern criminal justice system...

Ah I see - thanks a lot for your reply