41 replies to this topic

[jazz_fan9]

I think the use of "Zap" in the title of the article seems potentially inflammatory.

[Stratos]

Yes, because one left a scare on one of my twins hand and face. That answer your question?



Because its small means nothing.

That doesn't particularly answer the question though. Muzzling all dogs isn't going to undo what one dog did to your child, is it?

I think I've done enough in my last, conveniently ignored, post to rebut your "think of the children!" argument.

[gordon]

Never seen a dog tasered before but have experienced one that had been PAVA sprayed. It didn't seem too chuffed.

It's an old story and not related to this one but here's a video of a Taser'd dog.

[Woody]

That doesn't particularly answer the question though. Muzzling all dogs isn't going to undo what one dog did to your child, is it?

I think I've done enough in my last, conveniently ignored, post to rebut your "think of the children!" argument.

But it would have prevented it.

Should all motor cyclist stop wearing helmets? its not fair and they get all hot the poor loves. We have rules to save children/ adults getting hurt a dog should not be more important than a human. Muzzle them.

Edited by RoboCop, 14 March 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[Damsel]

But it would have prevented it.

Should all motor cyclist stop wearing helmets? its not fair and they get all hot the poor loves. We have rules to save children/ adults getting hurt a dog should not be more important than a human. Muzzle them.

I might muzzle you in a minute

[Woody]

I might muzzle you in a minute

I got a muzzle with your name on!

[tdcist]

Changing the subject completely..... Ive been scratched, bitten and attacked by more Cats than dogs!!!! Should we give them little booties?? and Muzzel them also??

Ive also been bitten by a couple of dogs.. But I can't lie, It was my fault... too much rough play, and no respect for the animal and yes, it will get upset!

You say muzzel all dogs, but there will always be the people that wont listen to this... so No the problem wont go away or be prevented. As its often these animals that the owners don't train, or look after that lash out...

I've had the pleasure of many Staffie Bulls, Rottweilers etc, that people consider dangerous, or violent. And i must say every one i've met has been as dappy as anything!! I've seen more viscious jack russels! lol

Edited by tdcist, 14 March 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[candles]

I trod on a cat's paw once - I felt very bad... Poor thing only came over to say hello

[Stratos]

But it would have prevented it.

Should all motor cyclist stop wearing helmets? its not fair and they get all hot the poor loves. We have rules to save children/ adults getting hurt a dog should not be more important than a human. Muzzle them.

Your argument against every single one of my points seems to just be to stick your fingers in your ears and say "muzzle them muzzle them muzzle them".

Again, would you ban unnecessary car journeys because that would save some children? Your idea would prevent injuries, but at what cost? It would be completely unenforceable and widely flouted not supported by the public, and rightly so as it'd be a huge step too far in this already daft nanny state stepping on people's freedoms here there and everywhere.

Far more sensible would be to take considered measures to prevent irresponsible dog owners from owning dogs in the first place.

Thankfully when making decisions about things like this - much like parents whose children have been hit by cars calling for ridiculously low speed limits everywhere - we don't listen too much to people whose views are formed through emotion and not logic.

[Woody]

Changing the subject completely..... Ive been scratched, bitten and attacked by more Cats than dogs!!!! Should we give them little booties?? and Muzzel them also??

Ive also been bitten by a couple of dogs.. But I can't lie, It was my fault... too much rough play, and no respect for the animal and yes, it will get upset!

You say muzzel all dogs, but there will always be the people that wont listen to this... so No the problem wont go away or be prevented. As its often these animals that the owners don't train, or look after that lash out...

I've had the pleasure of many Staffie Bulls, Rottweilers etc, that people consider dangerous, or violent. And i must say every one i've met has been as dappy as anything!! I've seen more viscious jack russels! lol

But Cats dont just run up to you and bite you.

Your argument against every single one of my points seems to just be to stick your fingers in your ears and say "muzzle them muzzle them muzzle them".

Again, would you ban unnecessary car journeys because that would save some children? Your idea would prevent injuries, but at what cost? It would be completely unenforceable and widely flouted not supported by the public, and rightly so as it'd be a huge step too far in this already daft nanny state stepping on people's freedoms here there and everywhere.

Far more sensible would be to take considered measures to prevent irresponsible dog owners from owning dogs in the first place.

Thankfully when making decisions about things like this - much like parents whose children have been hit by cars calling for ridiculously low speed limits everywhere - we don't listen too much to people whose views are formed through emotion and not logic.

But the points you make are not valid, having a dog for enjoyment and taking your kids to school is a bit different. You keep saying irresponsible owners need educating but dog that have responsible owner bite to,as you have said dogs are pack animals and will protect the owner, the dog that bite my daughter was owned by a women who has kids and always play with it ,no problems as soon as my daughter walked near its "packs" space it went off on one. You can not control an animal no matter how well you train it.They have deep instincts to protect its family and they will. Is the the dogs fault no, the owners yes, because they should be muzzled.


I had a basset hound once, it was well trained sat, lay, stay not aggressive at all, did as he was told never raised a paw to anyone, one day it went under my bed so i got down and called he's name and went to stroke him, he went for me, no reason and no motive, I was its leader....i gave it the benefit of the doubt then he jumped up one day as my other twin was walking past and just went for her. A dog will try and work his way up the pecking order do I blame them no because its what they are animals.

Lets legalize cannabis its never killed anyone and people have the right to enjoyment dont they? and not everyone who smokes it is irresponsible are they? (not my views btw) People have the right to be free and let dogs roam free off a lead with children in a park, the control over that dog ends the moment it is off the lead.

Edited by RoboCop, 14 March 2012 - 11:47 PM.

[Stratos]

But the points you make are not valid, having a dog for enjoyment and taking your kids to school is a bit different.

I don't see how they're not valid. I even suggested an alternative to a blanket rule. If I train a dog properly and supervise it properly, only for the law to tell me that counts for nothing and I have to needlessly muzzle it anyway, I'd completely resent that and, if I'm honest, probably flout it. And so would I imagine the majority of dog owners. Either that or they wouldn't take it out in public (I hope to God you're not suggesting people should muzzle dogs in their own homes) which would be very bad for the animals.

It's impractical, unenforceable and - and I don't usually aspire to be one of the left-wing civil liberties brigade - an infringement of people's freedom, all at the cost of preventing a negligible number of injuries when far more could be prevented by less extreme means.

As for the basset hound, well the behaviour of the dog will depend on a number of factors, just like the behaviour of humans. People with mental health issues can sometimes be violent but we don't stick them all in straightjackets.

Edited by Stratos, 14 March 2012 - 11:45 PM.

[Woody]

I don't see how they're not valid. I even suggested an alternative to a blanket rule. If I train a dog properly and supervise it properly, only for the law to tell me that counts for nothing and I have to needlessly muzzle it anyway, I'd completely resent that and, if I'm honest, probably flout it. And so would I imagine the majority of dog owners. Either that or they wouldn't take it out in public (I hope to God you're not suggesting people should muzzle dogs in their own homes) which would be very bad for the animals.

It's impractical, unenforceable and - and I don't usually aspire to be one of the left-wing civil liberties brigade - an infringement of people's freedom, all at the cost of preventing a negligible number of injuries when far more could be prevented by less extreme means.

As for the basset hound, well the behaviour of the dog will depend on a number of factors, just like the behaviour of humans. People with mental health issues can sometimes be violent but we don't stick them all in straightjackets.

No never in the homes. If people want to put their children at risk in their own homes by having a dog fine, I did and didnt even think about it.
And for the record I have a cat and none of my kids have scratch and bite scares from her.

[Stratos]

No never in the homes. If people want to put their children at risk in their own homes by having a dog fine, I did and didnt even think about it.
And for the record I have a cat and none of my kids have scratch and bite scares from her.

But cats have been known to scratch people. Using the same logic you've applied to dogs it should be de-clawed and wearing mittens at all times.

Then again, if you want to put your children at risk by having a cat...

[Woody]

But cats have been known to scratch people. Using the same logic you've applied to dogs it should be de-clawed and wearing mittens at all times.

Then again, if you want to put your children at risk by having a cat...

I have never heard of a cat seeking to hurt anyone, but I have heard of dogs seeking to bite.

If my kids had their way it would be wearing pink mittens and a bonnet.

Edited by RoboCop, 15 March 2012 - 12:36 AM.

[Stratos]

I have never heard of a cat seeking to hurt anyone, but I have heard of dogs seeking to bite.

If my kids had their way it would be wearing pink mittens and a bonnet.

Most times dogs will bite because they feel threatened, not because they're violent. The same is true of cats and scratching. Cat attacks have been documented and it's extremely naive to say that cats never hurt people. In fact aggression by cats is often unpredictable and comes without warning whereas dogs will more often than not bark or growl as a warning first. They're also more independent animals and less receptive to training which would automatically make me trust cats less than dogs in general.

Another thing worthy of note is that cats are all very similar both in appearance and behaviour, whereas dogs vary massively. They range from the naturally very timid to more aggressive breeds, but all of them can be safe given the proper training.

Edited by Stratos, 15 March 2012 - 12:57 AM.

[Woody]

Most times dogs will bite because they feel threatened, not because they're violent. The same is true of cats and scratching. Cat attacks have been documented and it's extremely naive to say that cats never hurt people. In fact aggression by cats is often unpredictable and comes without warning whereas dogs will more often than not bark or growl as a warning first. They're also more independent animals and less receptive to training which would automatically make me trust cats less than dogs in general.

Another thing worthy of note is that cats are all very similar both in appearance and behaviour, whereas dogs vary massively. They range from the naturally very timid to more aggressive breeds, but all of them can be safe given the proper training.

Yeah I agree but Unless you have a mountain lion then I dont think any children have ever been scared beyond recognition.

It's an old story and not related to this one but here's a video of a Taser'd dog.

The mind set behind why that dog wasnt taken is unreal..you could say its "shocking"

[Hades]

Enough with the muzzling discussion! Start a thread in Real World if you want to talk about that.