34 replies to this topic

[Cabman]

Hey all,

I'm a London black taxi driver and wondered whether the met police and City police have been told to pull Cabs for Bill and Badge checks If they are not displaying the new Identifiers?
There are so many Illegal taxis, taxis working out of their sectors etc driving in and around London, It would be great to know that the police are going to stop drivers without Identifiers. After all, Black Taxis get access to places no other vehicles can and anyone could be driving an Illegal one.
It only needs a terrorists to get the idea and all hell could go off.

Cheers
Geoff

[Damsel]

This might get a few more answers in the Met Specific section, as they'll be more 'in the know' than the rest of us non Met officers.

I've moved it there for you.

[Numpty]

Obviously nobody can go into specifics, but the MPS is extremely proactive on illegal cabs.

[callsign-kid]

Hey all,

I'm a London black taxi driver and wondered whether the met police and City police have been told to pull Cabs for Bill and Badge checks If they are not displaying the new Identifiers?
There are so many Illegal taxis, taxis working out of their sectors etc driving in and around London, It would be great to know that the police are going to stop drivers without Identifiers. After all, Black Taxis get access to places no other vehicles can and anyone could be driving an Illegal one.
It only needs a terrorists to get the idea and all hell could go off.

Cheers
Geoff

There's a lot of things done to target illegal cabbies. As for the point you bring up about terrorists using vehicles such as taxis, rest assured, the counter terrorism command are all over that.

[Obain]

Won't go into details but rest assured the Met and especially Safer Transport Command (Who you probably have heard of as a driver) do take it very seriously - Not only because it can lead to rapes, robberies and assaults but also because we know how much it damages you guys.

[richr]

STC routinely run operations, as has previously been mentioned. Only last week as part of Op Condor, there were vast numbers of checks carried out in conjunction with PCO officials on Friday and Saturday night.

[TroyTempest]

Interesting this, was talking to a cabbie about it just last night. He thinks it's a great idea.

As far as the terrorism thing goes, IRA at White City springs to mind so that's hardly a new threat. It does at least occur to me that those are high enough up to be easily read by CCTV and will mean that yellow badges are going to have to fudge a fake one to pick up where they shouldn't now.

I also noticed at a rank that all the cabbies were wearing their badges which is not unusual but they were *all* wearing them.

I expect (I have no contact with cabs enforcement) but they'll be a period of enforcement to make sure everyone's updated.

Here's a question for the OP, do you have to notify the PCO if you share a cab with another driver

[richr]

I also noticed at a rank that all the cabbies were wearing their badges which is not unusual but they were *all* wearing them.

That'll be us putting the fear of PCO into them last Saturday

[R5!]

What are these new identifiers?

[Cabman]

Interesting this, was talking to a cabbie about it just last night. He thinks it's a great idea.

As far as the terrorism thing goes, IRA at White City springs to mind so that's hardly a new threat. It does at least occur to me that those are high enough up to be easily read by CCTV and will mean that yellow badges are going to have to fudge a fake one to pick up where they shouldn't now.

I also noticed at a rank that all the cabbies were wearing their badges which is not unusual but they were *all* wearing them.

I expect (I have no contact with cabs enforcement) but they'll be a period of enforcement to make sure everyone's updated.

Here's a question for the OP, do you have to notify the PCO if you share a cab with another driver

No you don't as far as I know, Each driver must make sure his Identifiers are in the cab when working it though. With the fact that is now (Since 1st March 2012) a legal requirement to display the new Identifiers I would have thought that any officer seeing a cab without them would Immediately think some things wrong and stop the cab for Bill and badge check? I too think the ID's are a much needed tool against touts and out of sector workers, but they will only work if the police enforce the law and stop cabs not displaying them, Otherwise it'll become a farce.

What are these new identifiers?

The new Identifiers are green (for all London Cabbies) and yellow (for suburban cabbies) they are on the front and rear windscreens, nearside top. 10 inch by 4 inch and display the drivers badge number and where he/she is entitled to ply for hire. They are from today a legal requirement and MUST be displayed when a driver is working. So any cab without these ID's who is working is breaking the law.

[Obain]

I quite enjoyed Op Condor - It was basically catching people who never expected to get caught.

[richr]

I quite enjoyed Op Condor - It was basically catching people who never expected to get caught.

Best (apart from the body for UKBA, I think he was an unlucky passenger!) I got was an FPN for a headlamp - I must have stopped 50 minicabs and everything was in order!

Question is, is out-of-sector working an statutory offence, or is it a report-to-the-pco thing?

[SBG]

In simple terms

Green - Pan London
Yellow - Suburban - so you might be badged for Croydon or Romford

This has become a requirement of PCO, run by TfL from today

[richr]

Do we have any powers to deal, and is the infringement pick-up only?

[Numpty]

Do we have any powers to deal, and is the infringement pick-up only?

Yes, it's the starting point that is important. A suburban licence-holder can take someone into central London but must then return to his/her area before picking up again. There are zones.

Edited by Numpty, 01 March 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[SBG]

yes - effectively they are touting if a yellow badge was to pick up in another area, that they were not licenced to work in

[Numpty]

It is also an offence to have a dirty taxi.

The person who decides whether a taxi is dirty or not is the holder of the office of Constable

[SBG]

and also a PCO inspector!

[richr]

What's the specific offence for taxi touting? Being a chap, I never get picked for those operations!

[Numpty]

The specific offence is "taxi touting"

Section 167 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

"...it is an offence, in a public place, to solicit persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers."

[Kellym82]

What's the specific offence for taxi touting? Being a chap, I never get picked for those operations!

A driver isn't actually allowed to ask punters if they want a taxi - the taxi driver has to be approached by the potential passenger. So if a driver asks if someone wants a taxi, techincally that's an offence.

Edited by Kellym82, 01 March 2012 - 09:42 PM.

[richr]

The specific offence is "taxi touting"

Section 167 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

"...it is an offence, in a public place, to solicit persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers."

Ta!

[Guycpw]

It's nice to know the Met are so thorough RE illegal taxis and the like, good work.

[Mr Benn]

yes - effectively they are touting if a yellow badge was to pick up in another area, that they were not licenced to work in

Its a long time since I did taxi enforcement and things may have changed but isn't the key word " plying for Hire"

A suburban (yellow) badge holder is allowed to take a booking in an area out side his licenced area as long a he is in his licenced area when he takes that booking.

As I understand it Yellow badge holders are not allowed to ply for hire out side their licenced area.

My taxi driver neighbour is a yellow badge holder and does some pre-booked work and an example he gave me is

Whilst working in his west London area he gets a telephone booking to pick up at central London Hotel at 1800 to go to Heathrow.

At 4pm someone gets in his cab in west London and wants to go to Kings Cross Station.
He does the job to Kings Cross however once there he is not allowed to ply for hire as he is in central London.
He then leaves is "For Hire" light off and drives to said hotel a pick up his 1800 customer and takes them to Heathrow.

After dropping them off he is not allowed to ply for hire at Heathrow so he drives to his local taxi rank and put his "For Hire" light on and ply's for hire from there.

As I said at the beginning is a long time since I did any taxi enforcement and the example given to me sounds reasonable.

Maybe the OP can shed some light on this.

There is limited reference on the TFL/PCO web page

[Cabman]

That's splendid lads, now all you need to do is stop and check any Taxi not displaying the new ID's and everyone's happy

PS

Just wondering how other officers (say for instance officers that don't read this forum) How do they get told about the new ID's and the law surrounding them? I mean there are a lot of met and city police so how are they informed of this change in the law?

Thanks
Geoff

Whilst working in his west London area he gets a telephone booking to pick up at central London Hotel at 1800 to go to Heathrow.

At 4pm someone gets in his cab in west London and wants to go to Kings Cross Station.
He does the job to Kings Cross however once there he is not allowed to ply for hire as he is in central London.
He then leaves is "For Hire" light off and drives to said hotel a pick up his 1800 customer and takes them to Heathrow.

[/quote]

What he has done there is Illegal, he is not allowed to pick up work out of his sector. Pre booked or not.