12 replies to this topic

[SC Goose]

Hi Folks,

So I'm looking at applying to become a retained fire-fighter within Hampshire.. Reading the application form it states
"NB: If you are a serving police officer you are unable to work for Hampshire Fire and Rescue
Service on a secondary contract."

1) Why would that rule exist? Can't quite figure that out myself.

2) I'm assuming special dosent count as it was asking that in relation to occupation?

Thanks

[samt]

Presumably because you can be turned out by the police in the case of a great emergency. The same would apply to a SC.

You should ask the brigade whether they'll accept a SC; I think their answer will be no: you've presumably got a day-job and having two voluntary jobs (one of which may conflict) seems a little excessive.

[Burnsy2023]

I can't see how you'd possibly have time to do a job, be an SC and a retained firefighter anyway.

[fruitandveg]

The law says you can't be a member of a police force and perform functions for a Fire & Rescue authority under one of the Fire Acts (can't remember which). However, only PCs are deemed to be members of a police force, so special constables can legally be firefighters - I believe the objection comes more from the Fire and Rescue Services than the police.

Just found this! http://www.fireoffic...FRSC62_2009.pdf

Edited by fruitandveg, 21 December 2011 - 01:52 PM.

[callsign-kid]

According to a newspaper article I read a while back the LFB has 7 or 8 SCs in the MPS.

[Killicksparker]

I seem to remember something about this before. Wasn't it one of those funny ones where if you were a Special (as a warranted police officer) you couldn't become a retained firefighter, but if you were a retained firefighter you could become a Special

[zippyRN]

Hi Folks,

So I'm looking at applying to become a retained fire-fighter within Hampshire.. Reading the application form it states
"NB: If you are a serving police officer you are unable to work for Hampshire Fire and Rescue
Service on a secondary contract."

1) Why would that rule exist? Can't quite figure that out myself.

2) I'm assuming special dosent count as it was asking that in relation to occupation?

Thanks

being an employee of two cat 1 responders under the Civil Contingencies Act is always going to raise issues of conflict - this is aside from any difficulties raised where stuff disclosed to you in one employment causes a conflict with the other ( hence the reason a number of forces continue to prohibit or strongly discourage health professionals from becoming specials)

[Sam_McCully]

Ello,

I know that being a Retained Firefighter used to be on the good old 'Precluded Occupations' list, however, just done a quick google and it now says that they can be as long as the Cheif Officers of both the Police and Fire Services in question are in agreement.

I would imagine it would be down to contingecy etc. For example, if something like that August Disturbances happened again and you got a call from the Fire Service and the Police, who would you go with?

If you chose the Fire Service would you then neglecting your duty as an Officer? Just some food for thought.

Or likewise you are sent to an arson attack and some how the offender is there (unlikly I know!) then what would you do?

So yeah, I'd imagine that its more down to logistics.
Sam

[Nim]

Out of interest, what if you were a PCSO?

[Jonnybasildon]

PCSOs can be retained firefighters. They are ultimately just police staff and have the same ability to go on the run as a retained firefighter as the woman on reception at HQ!

[Dolive21]

I would imagine it would be down to contingecy etc. For example, if something like that August Disturbances happened again and you got a call from the Fire Service and the Police, who would you go with?

If you chose the Fire Service would you then neglecting your duty as an Officer? Just some food for thought.

How about the police decide how to deploy a shared resource based on police primacy at a public order based major incident? It isn't really a loss of resources if you join the specials and aren't available for some major emergencies. You can still do street patrol, reassure people etc. and deploy to many major incidents. A train crash, unexploded bomb, Hazchem incident or bomb scare would most likely not need you for the Fire service, as they either don't require that big a fire service response or would mainly need firefighters with specialist training the Fire and Rescue Authority won'y pay for for retained firefighters. It would of course be different if a full time officer was a retained firefighter, as that would be denying the force a trained body for use at major incidents, since there is a budget for so many full time officers and no more.

[Jonnybasildon]

How about the police decide how to deploy a shared resource based on police primacy at a public order based major incident? It isn't really a loss of resources if you join the specials and aren't available for some major emergencies. You can still do street patrol, reassure people etc. and deploy to many major incidents. A train crash, unexploded bomb, Hazchem incident or bomb scare would most likely not need you for the Fire service, as they either don't require that big a fire service response or would mainly need firefighters with specialist training the Fire and Rescue Authority won'y pay for for retained firefighters. It would of course be different if a full time officer was a retained firefighter, as that would be denying the force a trained body for use at major incidents, since there is a budget for so many full time officers and no more.

Depends on the brigade (service) as to how they utilised their retained crews. Some will train their retained crews in specialist areas. However, I think to say the flexibility is there to choose what you would be doing that day in terms of wearing a police or fire uniform is somewhat misleading. If a retained firefighter commits to a number of hours and availability at a given time, he or she needs to meet that commitment or they wont get paid their retainer.

In terms of attending incidents like train crashes or hazchem incidents, the Fire Service will generally have a major role in these, and retained firefighters have been a key part of that response, as well as ensuring fire cover in the surrounding areas should it be required due to the number of crews committed elsewhere.

[MerseyLLB]

Out of interest, what if you were a PCSO?

When I was a PCSO I asked if I could join KFRS as retained and was declined. I was told that it was felt that it would interfere with my performance of my duties. Which is sort of fair play. As I was commuting on average 2hrs each way for 8-10 hour shifts.

The other thing that people need to bear in mind is if you are retained your beeper could go off at 5am and you could be on a shout for 2 hours at a location half an hour blue light run from your station. So you could be looking at 930AM before getting back home. What if your day job required you to be at work for 9. etc.