14 replies to this topic

[Rocket]

My daughter is learning to drive a car, and lessons are expensive so having found out that our insurer for the Land Rover now insures those under 21 we have put her on the insurance.

But I have noticed that she crosses over her hands whilst steering and I know that is a fail on the driving test, so any advice there please?

The Landy is huge compared to the Nissan Micra that her instructor uses, so respect to her for even attempting to drive it, I learned to drive in my dad's Vauxhall Cresta and I am sure that could have fitted in the boot of the Landy!

So all help on any points on how to teach someone to drive are gratefully received!

[Ontopofahill!]

I was always taught the "10 to 2" positioning and then you would pass through with both hands meeting at the top and bottom of the steering wheel. I guess its hard trying to explain it without actually physically showing! haha

[dogtanian]

• Have the patience of a saint
• Don't give all your feedback when you witness the behaviour or mistake there and then, but store it until you ask her to pull over and discuss it constructively
• Keep absolutely calm when she stalls in traffic and speak at normal pace to avoid her panicing
• Plan what manoeuvres or techniques you want her to learn before you set off instead of just chucking everything at her in one session
• Don't grab at the wheel unless you actually think she's going to impact!

That's all I can think off the top of my head. A Landy would be a good car to learn in I suppose, great visibility and driving position. She'll be conservative with distances when she sits her test though!

Best of luck.

[Ontopofahill!]

I was always taught the "10 to 2" positioning and then you would pass through with both hands meeting at the top and bottom of the steering wheel. I guess its hard trying to explain it without actually physically showing! haha

Sorry I didnt read the post correctly, but the above post is spot on!


Regards,

Ontopofahill!

[dogtanian]

I was always taught the "10 to 2" positioning and then you would pass through with both hands meeting at the top and bottom of the steering wheel. I guess its hard trying to explain it without actually physically showing! haha

It sure slows you down! Suppose that's all part of it.

[Ontopofahill!]

It sure slows you down! Suppose that's all part of it.

Oh I dont use that one now! Its really impractical haha, just a really good learning technique!

[MrBlonde]

Suggest you start by taking her out as a passenger, you drive and give a running commentary of what you are doing, where you are looking, what you've seen, why you position the car where you do coming up to a bend, why skid marks suggest you exercise more caution on this bend/approach to a concealed entrance etc
This will not only give her insight and get her thinking/looking but it's actually good for you too, you might learn something yourself

Then you need to teach her the basics of car control to the point that she doesn't need to think about them, so she can concentrate on what's happening on the road outside the vehicle.

That's a lot of driving around a flat supermarket/showcase cinema car park without touching the throttle. Extreme clutch control, getting it to move just on tick-over revs (should be easy with the big diesel) and gently adjusting 'road position' with simple smooth movements that don't require crossing the hands.
Once she's mastered that, then go for acceleration and changing gear.

Once she's ok with that start with the observation of surroundings questions to get her to take notice of what's going on around her - "what colour car did you just pass on the left", "what just drove past in the other direction" etc. She doesn't need to be mastermind but spacial awareness and anticipation are what separate an average driver from a great one, the sooner she gets into the mindset that stuff really is going on outside as she fumbles with the gears, the better.

Only then would I venture out onto the open road - there's so much going on, with pedestrians, children running around, people driving and texting, overcrowding etc that I'd want to make sure she's confident enough to handle the car and generally see what's happening around her under 'normal' circumstances, before putting her into an environment where anything can happen, don't forget you've not got the benefit of dual controls, if she panics there's very little you can do about it until after the impact brings the Landy to a halt, and hopefully that's not parked on top of a bus queue.

[Owen]

I was always taught the "10 to 2" positioning and then you would pass through with both hands meeting at the top and bottom of the steering wheel. I guess its hard trying to explain it without actually physically showing! haha

As well as that, if you are turning left, pull down with the left and push up with the right (Both at different times if you know what I mean) Opposite for turning right.

[policey_man]

I've tried this before.... with someone I had a not so great relationship with and two other people who I was very close with. The former didn't work so well. It's funny how personal relationships impact so much on this, but what I did was just try and remember how you were taught. Think about it from your daughter's perspective.... it's all very new, she's got so much to learn... doing five things at once whilst driving is now second nature to you, but it isn't to her, so keep that in mind. Only teach one thing at a time. Don't move on till she's confident with that. Cover the basics first... gears, clutch control, stop/start, indicators, use of mirrors - all of which can be done in quiet areas and are things she needs to master before going in regular traffic. Remember at the start of each new lesson, you'll have to build up from the beginning again.

Ask what she's doing in her lessons, what she feels she needs to work on, what the instructor is saying.... the worse thing you can do is contradict the instructor. Go through the cockpit checks, mirrors, etc every time you start. Don't criticise her whilst she is driving - unless she is doing something dangerous. Make a mental note of it and at the end of the drive, review it together. Don't let her get into bad habits.... so tell her when she crosses her hands, insist on 10 and 2 position.

What I found useful, was for the first few times, just to go somewhere quite (like a local industrial estate on a Sunday morning) where the is no traffic. As she builds up confidence, move from the quiet areas on to semi-busy roads. Avoid busy roads, heavy traffic, dual carriageways, fast roads. Also remember she'll be slower than you - don't rush her to pull out at junctions or to speed up. Patience is probably the key thing for all of this. Stay calm, and don't shout. A police instructor actually taught me to drive (not in a work capacity), and he always said that he would never shout because if things got that bad that he needed to shout, it was his fault for letting them get that bad.

When you are driving her to and from the quiet areas, a commentary is also a great idea… let her see your thinking and why you’re doing what you’re doing. Let us know how it goes.... and good luck to both of you!

[HazRat]

I'm no driving expert, but I was at a DSA site today and browsing some of their trade mags. One had an article on how coaching is now being favoured instead of formal instruction. The student should decide how they wish to learn, whether the ADI shows them how to do something and they do it, they talk about and then do it or they just have a go and learn from the mistake. The article starts of by talking about the holy grail of method of steering and whether the student should do what works best or them.

So with that in mind, how about giving her the choice. After all, if she drives to a reasonable standard without over / under steering, mounting kerbs, steering late or off course then she must be doing something right!

[callsign-kid]

http://www.youtube.c...er/www2passcouk Have her look at these videos, and watch them yourself. They are a very useful resource. Try to get the theory out the way, it is easy if its revised for. Get her reading the highway code. There are some good resources to be had on ebay for a couple of quid each as well. When I did the theory test I got 1 question wrong out 50 and if I can pass it then most normal people should be able to as well. Can you get feedback from her instructor? That would help you to point her in the right direction as well. Crossing the hands over once in the test wouldn't be a fail but if she did it continually it would be. One of the most common points to fail on is the manoeuvre. You used to have to do two manoeuvres on the test but you now only have to do one. It will be one of reverse around a corner, parallel park, turn in the road or bay park. With regard to the reverse around a corner that is generally considered the most tricky and is pointless in the extreme, But the wheels being pretty much on the corner of a landy should make it fairly easy to do in it. Parallel park; the most common method that ADIs teach is the 1, 2 ,1 method. The turn in a road is basically a three point turn but isn't called that because it could be conducted on a more narrow road where 5 points may be necessary. Though I had to do that one and I could have done a U turn in the little 307 with the road it was conducted in. Bay parks will only be done at test centres and not all test centres have parking bays. In place of that second manoeuvre you have to do interdependent driving, which is a doddle.

Pull push steering is easy enough to do, problem comes with those with smaller arms and vehicles with larger steering wheels, which can make it uncomfortable. So the landy is not ideal in that respect although being a diesel its a good car to learn clutch control in as it will be more forgiving than a petrol engine. To get her used to vehicle control hill starts are fantastic because they incorporate a lot of the control which is required, although it can be very difficult at first.

Edited by callsign-kid, 27 September 2011 - 07:47 PM.

[Rocket]

Ah, great advice from everybody!

Having her sit in the passenger seat and me explaining what I am doing whilst I am driving is awesome, why didn't I think of that?

Just goes to show why it is always worth asking questions here on the forums, thank you for all answering me here!

[callsign-kid]

I've tried this before.... with someone I had a not so great relationship with and two other people who I was very close with. The former didn't work so well.

I have to agree. I first learned to drive off my Dad before I had professional lessons. Usually it ended up with one, other or both of us in an enormous huff.

Ah, great advice from everybody!

Having her sit in the passenger seat and me explaining what I am doing whilst I am driving is awesome, why didn't I think of that?

Just goes to show why it is always worth asking questions here on the forums, thank you for all answering me here!

Yes jut make sure you're doing everything "right." That can be very tricky given how nit picky the DSA is.

Edited by callsign-kid, 27 September 2011 - 07:46 PM.

[HarryB]

How many seats is it? I noticed it's a 110 so if its got seats in the rear area, you need a Cat D to drive it as it has more than 8 passenger seats (11). I imagine you already know this and I doubt yours falls into this category because it's got panel sides, but something to be aware of - I've known people be done for it previously as it falls outside the car category licence.

When I was learning to drive I found having 2 hours lessons with my instructor beneficial, but then going out and practicing quite a lot with parents helped reinforce what I'd been taught. Her watching as you drive and commentate is a godd idea though - just watch any bad habits :-P

[oddbod]

Drawing pin pointy side up on top of the gear lever and a wooden spoon to 'correct' hand positions.
Works wonders.