124 replies to this topic

[Hades]

I was considering going in for it, I have been told I can do part 1 during probation but obviously have to wait till end of probation before acting up or going for part 2 etc.

Does anyone else have to do a pre part 1 exam? or is it just my force?

You have to have served 2 years and be confirmed in post by the 30th November of the year in which you take the exam (I'm sure it used to be October though) in order to be eligible to take the exam.

If BTP uses the new NPPF method of promotion (workplace assessments rather than Part 2) then part of that framework has a suitability check prior to taking Part 1. as part of the full OSPRE method of promotion some forces might require a suitability check before allowing your application for Part 1, though that's not part of the national procedure and therefore an pre-exam-exam isn't something that's required in my force or most others as far as I'm aware.

No you pass part 1 and then have to take part 2.

If there are no vacancies then if an opportunity comes up you might be asked to "Act Up" so will take in a Sgt role, but still be on your PC pay.

Or if there are no posts, and no option to act you up stay as a PC until there is.

If you Act up then you get paid pro-rata at the lowest sergeants pay scale, but only after you've done X hours Acting (I think it's 120 hours in my force, and I'm not sure if it varies from force to force or not?). It can be a decent amount of money obviously if you've not made it to top wack PC yet - I've had some very healthy pay packets from it! If you're made Temporary then you get paid from the outset at Sergeants rates starting at the lowest pay point and moving up the scale as you do more than a year etc (and stints as Temporary accrue, so if you do 100 days Temporary then go back to pc for a while and do 400 days as Temporary you'll have moved to year 2 on the pay scales for Sergeant and that will continue when you're made Substantive).

Also, when you're made Temporary you hold the rank of Sergeant which is why you can carry out the role of Custody Officer where if you're Acting you're only carrying out the duties of a Sergeant while still holding the rank of Constable and therefore can't (although I think some forces have in the past allowed this, despite the law!).

[JackDaniels]

Thanks Hades... that's useful to know.

[bensonby]

I've just put in for it and my skipper has just approved it! Time to start studying!

[Police Constable 1]

You have to have served 2 years and be confirmed in post by the 30th November of the year in which you take the exam (I'm sure it used to be October though) in order to be eligible to take the exam.

Aye NPIA website says the 2yrs must be up prior to the Novemember of the year its taken as you say,

I will be ok, just need to register my interest with HR when Im in on Tue

Edited by Police Constable 1, 25 September 2011 - 11:36 PM.

[SkinSte]

As I am Met, there has been no further word about the next stage for us... or whether it will continue using the Towbar method. I am seriously thinking of getting myself on an SNT or something to gain some evidence and also act up... I am getting no evidence working on a response team.

I spoke to a Sgt the other day who is doing the Guv process and he said that for Sgts it's still Towbar at the moment... take with a pinch

[rego_psp22]

I'm revising from the Blackstones online Q and A at the moment. Questions are really good(difficult) and exam like. The server the site is placed on leaves a little to be desired, you keep getting sent to other websites hosted on the server when you're mid exam and Blackstones haven't really won me over in their response (or lack of) to my complaints about this. Despite this I'd still recommend them as the questions are so similar to the ones you'll do in the OSPRE exam.

[Hades]

I'm revising from the Blackstones online Q and A at the moment. Questions are really good(difficult) and exam like. The server the site is placed on leaves a little to be desired, you keep getting sent to other websites hosted on the server when you're mid exam and Blackstones haven't really won me over in their response (or lack of) to my complaints about this. Despite this I'd still recommend them as the questions are so similar to the ones you'll do in the OSPRE exam.

I used Blackstones [online] Q&A and found it very good with excellent explanations of answers and questions fairly close to the style of the real ones. I didn't have the problems you mention with the site personally.



JD, what sort of evidence are you looking for? You should be able to get some decent evidence of leadership skills on response...?!

[JackDaniels]

Hades, unfortunately the best evidence I seem to get on response is, mindless, routine, mundane, tedious

The panels love multi agency, partnership, community led stuff... this very much falls under the remit of SNT.

[Hades]

Hades, unfortunately the best evidence I seem to get on response is, mindless, routine, mundane, tedious

The panels love multi agency, partnership, community led stuff... this very much falls under the remit of SNT.

Ahh right, so you need to evidence that sort of thing even to get on to the Work Based Assessment process after doing part 1?

In my force the response officers are often assigned a neighbourhood area to focus on, liaise with the SNT and work closely with them on local issues etc*... Something like that might help you get a bit more evidence if you don't fancy the move to SNT. Obviously time to do that sort of thing is a factor for response officers though!





*thats the theory anyway...

[rego_psp22]

I used Blackstones [online] Q&A and found it very good with excellent explanations of answers and questions fairly close to the style of the real ones. I didn't have the problems you mention with the site personally.

It seems to have been in the last few weeks that the problems have worsened. Anyway, I am relieved to know that the sites "product team" are looking at the matter. They have been for the last 2 weeks however and are yet to update me but hey ho. I will of probably finished using it by the time I get a response!

[JackDaniels]

Ahh right, so you need to evidence that sort of thing even to get on to the Work Based Assessment process after doing part 1?

In my force the response officers are often assigned a neighbourhood area to focus on, liaise with the SNT and work closely with them on local issues etc*... Something like that might help you get a bit more evidence if you don't fancy the move to SNT. Obviously time to do that sort of thing is a factor for response officers though!





*thats the theory anyway...

There is no Met stage 2 process at the moment.... or if there is then it's unclear exactly what it will entail.

The previous system as I understand it basically revolved around you hitting certain competencies with evidence.... I think there had to be five or so examples and then a panel would decide if you were to go onto Towbar. The evidence you gathered could be "banked" for up to two years. As I understand it Towbar was the point at which you became a Sgt... albeit one that had to still provide further evidence, undertake various training courses before becoming a substantive Sgt.

Another method that has been used in the past is an assessment centre type setup where you do role plays etc, and they assess you for leadership potential. I'd expect the Met to go with the cheapest and easiest option for them, and probably wont do anything now until after the Olympics by which time I'd imagine they would have about 3000 Sgts. in waiting

[bensonby]

I'm firmly of the same belief as you JD - Team is a bit of a dead-end for "evidence".

That said, promotion isn't the be-all and end-all and, as you say, there will be a huge backlog of qualified prospective sergeants soon so I'm not holding my breath: I'm going to do the exam for the experience but I hold no expectation of promotion in the next few years.

[JackDaniels]

I'm firmly of the same belief as you JD - Team is a bit of a dead-end for "evidence".

That said, promotion isn't the be-all and end-all and, as you say, there will be a huge backlog of qualified prospective sergeants soon so I'm not holding my breath: I'm going to do the exam for the experience but I hold no expectation of promotion in the next few years.

Well I am hopefully going to be able to line up a bit of a best of both worlds... depends of course on my Guv agreeing.

[Hades]

There is no Met stage 2 process at the moment.... or if there is then it's unclear exactly what it will entail.

The previous system as I understand it basically revolved around you hitting certain competencies with evidence.... I think there had to be five or so examples and then a panel would decide if you were to go onto Towbar. The evidence you gathered could be "banked" for up to two years. As I understand it Towbar was the point at which you became a Sgt... albeit one that had to still provide further evidence, undertake various training courses before becoming a substantive Sgt.

Another method that has been used in the past is an assessment centre type setup where you do role plays etc, and they assess you for leadership potential. I'd expect the Met to go with the cheapest and easiest option for them, and probably wont do anything now until after the Olympics by which time I'd imagine they would have about 3000 Sgts. in waiting

Well, if they go with cheapest and easiest then that'll be OSPRE Part 2 that they go back to (it's followed by a Board to present evidence of leadership skills etc when posts open up in my force). The method you describe for 'towbar' sounds a much better way of doing it if they're looking for decent people..

It's probably going to be middle of next year before any boards in my force I understand, and with a lot of competition when they do come up! I'm going to try for it when it comes around although I wasn't intending to when I took the exams last year... I think I have to really as the chances of it coming up again in the next few years with all the reviews and what not are slim I reckon.. To that end I'm actively seeking acting or temporary opportunities in other departments in the force even though I'm arguably in one of, if not the best roles in the force at the moment and don't really want to leave.

[Gallifrey]

I've just put into to do mine in the Met, the Met HR system is just awful,as you had to apply through that as well as complete the paper form, trust computerisation to double the amount of paperwork!!!.

[museman]

yeah it takes ages, absolute rubbish!

Whats everyone revision plans? I've been told the police pass crammers are good...already have their audio CD's.

[adslegend]

Janes Sgts and Inspector's Part 1 Crammer edited by Tom Barron.

Much cheaper than all the Blackstones books, and much more to the point. I still refer to it regularly now

[bensonby]

My paper form is away! May the studying commence!

[ammo1234]

Im finding the Jane's one a bit difficult to get to grips with as its seems to be just a Question with its answer. I don't get the structure to it. Is it better to use it as a proper crammer book rather than as the main revision book?

[rego_psp22]

Im finding the Jane's one a bit difficult to get to grips with as its seems to be just a Question with its answer. I don't get the structure to it. Is it better to use it as a proper crammer book rather than as the main revision book?

I'd get the Blackstones manuals. The questions tend to be on the more finer points of the law and the weird and wonderful case law decisions that relate to each (which are in the key notes in Blackstones). Just did the Inspector's exam, there is no key or banker area with it anymore, they questions were all over place!

Im finding the Jane's one a bit difficult to get to grips with as its seems to be just a Question with its answer. I don't get the structure to it. Is it better to use it as a proper crammer book rather than as the main revision book?

I'd get the Blackstones manuals. The questions tend to be on the more finer points of the law and the weird and wonderful case law decisions that relate to each (which are in the key notes in Blackstones). Just did the Inspector's exam, there is no key or banker area with it anymore, they questions were all over place!

[walesmjc]

Just did the Inspector's exam, there is no key or banker area with it anymore, they questions were all over place!

Same here, no section 60, bail, raves, Criminal Justice + PO Act 1994 stuff, relevant times, few drink drive! It was all very obscure things

[rego_psp22]

Court orders about confessions of murder to a Preist, I must admit it should be requisite knowledge for a budding Inspector. Usually get 2 or 3 people each shift coughing a murder to their preist!!

Oh well! Best of luck!

[adslegend]

I was under the impression that the syllabus for Inspectors and Sergeants Part 1 was almost identical, except the Inspectors pass mark is higher.

[rego_psp22]

The syllabus is about the same, save there is a little less traffic on the Inspectors and the pass mark is 65%.

http://www.npia.police.uk/en/18221.htm

[walesmjc]

Court orders about confessions of murder to a Preist, I must admit it should be requisite knowledge for a budding Inspector. Usually get 2 or 3 people each shift coughing a murder to their preist!!

Oh well! Best of luck!

Ha, I had forgotten that one until your reminder!

That was one of many! Good luck and let us know how you get on, i'm certain that i've failed

To all budding Pc to Sgt candidates, you can follow this link to see what statistically comes up in the exam http://www.police-pa..._STATISTICS.pdf

But as far as your study goes, beware as this years Insp exam was very obscure and many of the 'bankers' did not come up, and those that did were far out there, like regso_psp22's post!