138 replies to this topic

[Sailor]

Will an automatic tube system help evacuate a train and assist passengers down the track to the next station? Will an automatic tube system inform authorities that something has gone wrong? Will an automatic tube system react to a 'jumper' on the line? Will an automatic tube system even recognise that fact and either stop the train immediately, or not even start the train if it happens at the station as the train starts off or even before it starts off? Will an automatic tube system react to the emergency alarm being pulled - other than merely stopping? Did you know, for instance, that if a problem occurs in a tube, the driver merely needs to reach out and squeeze two wires together along the tunnel to alert to problems? Will an automatic tube system be able to do that?

Sure it can:

Edited by Sailor, 24 November 2011 - 03:35 PM.

[Rocket]

That is an aeroplane, but that's not important right now.

[Sailor]

That is an aeroplane, but that's not important right now.

I think you'll find it's "Airplane"..


Taxi....

[Rocket]

I wrote it correctly to save David time Anglicising it.

[Sailor]

Here we go again. A union holding their employer hostage and guess who will come out worst if the employer stuck to what was agreed? The general public. I am beginning to wonder if some of these unions have any sort of morals?

Tube drivers to strike on Boxing Day in pay row

Tube drivers will hold strikes on four days, including Boxing Day, in a row over pay, a drivers' union announced.

Aslef ballotted its 2,200 members over demands for triple pay and a day off lieu for working on the bank holiday.

Staff will walk out for 24 hours on Boxing Day, 16 January, 3 and 13 February. Aslef said 92% voted to take industrial action.

London Underground (LU) said it had asked the union to abandon its strike threat over "an outrageous pay claim".

Services were severely disrupted last year when drivers walked out on Boxing Day after talks collapsed.

'Quality time off'
The union has said it wanted "adequate compensation" for working on Boxing Day and it wanted Tube drivers to be able to volunteer to work on such an "unsociable" day.

A statement from the union said: "The whole dispute has been about seeking equitable quality time off for our members but recognising those who do operate the service may need to be incentivised.

"The company is currently offering no additional payments for working on Boxing Day. The union says its members may need 'substantial incentives' to volunteer.

"If the dispute is not resolved, the union intends to take further action on 16 January and 3 and 13 February."

LU said Tube workers already "earn a premium" for working on Boxing Day.

Howard Collins, LU's chief operating officer, said: "It is disgraceful for the Aslef leadership to threaten strike action while we are engaged in continuing discussions on this issue.

"LU has a long-standing agreement with all of its trade unions which cover staff working arrangements on bank holidays, and Boxing Day is included in that agreement.

"However, we have shown good faith in reviewing Boxing Day services so that staffing requirements are lower than when Aslef raised this matter last year, and Aslef should do the same."

Source: BBC News

Many jobs are automated, and perhaps there are good reasons for that. Even I can see that. But we're talking people's lives here, not packing tins of beans. Quite aside from those considerations, what do you say to and do with all those you propose to throw on the unemployed scrap heap?

Aside from the fact you are potentially talking about thousands of people's lives relying on automation, which we all know can and does go wrong and cannot cope with the unexpected, your job can't be automated. So you're OK then... 'I'm alright Jack'?

Which do you trust the most? A computer or a human?

According to this website, total human/pilot factors in fatal or serious airplane accidents account for 56%. Weather is 12% and sabotage is 9% and mechanical failure is 22%. I don't see much of "autopilot" being the major cause of accidents. Even if it is was included within mechanical failure, which one would assume all sorts of structural and mechanical failures, it is still helluva lot less than human/pilot factors.

[fence]

TRIPLE pay, and a day off....



And to strike for 4 days...

[Bas]

92% voted for industrial action?

Or 92% of those who voted (often around 40% of the workforce) said yes to strike?

Massive difference, and happens all too often.

Either way, it's about time some people were grateful for the job they have. Excellent pay, an excellent working week, and excellent holiday.

I'm all for Unions defending people who really have been treated harshly by their employer, but I have had very little sympathy for tube staff for quite some time.

It's gone well beyond "give us a fair working environment" and has developed into greed and arrogance.

[Sailor]

This smacks of blackmail to me

London bus workers 'could strike' for Olympics pay

London bus workers said they were treated as "second class citizens"
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

Tube staff back Boxing Day strike
Rail staff get 25% Games pay rise
Olympic pay deal for Tube drivers
Bus workers in London have said they want a £500 payment for being on duty during next year's Olympic Games.

Trade union, Unite, has written to bus operators on behalf of up to 28,000 employees raising the threat of industrial action if a deal is not agreed.

It said £500 would be in line with what other London transport staff will be receiving for working during the Games.

Transport for London has called for a resolution with minimal disruption.

'World-beaters'
It comes a day after Tube drivers announced that they will hold 24-hour strikes on four days, including Boxing Day.

They want triple pay and a day off in lieu for working on the bank holiday.

Unite has argued that an extra 800,000 passengers are expected to travel on buses during the Olympics, generating "significant" extra revenue.

Continue reading the main story
London 2012 - Begin your journey here


London 2012: Latest Olympic news, sport, features and programmes from the BBC
Its regional secretary, Peter Kavanagh, said it was "only right" that bus workers were rewarded for their "extra contribution" during the Olympics.

He said: "For too long Transport for London (TfL), the mayor and bus operators have treated London bus workers as second class citizens, while saying they are the best in the world.

"Our members are saying enough is enough. If you say they're the best treat them like they are."

Two weeks ago London Overground, which manages London's suburban rail network, agreed to pay its staff an extra 25% for working during the Olympics and Paralympics.

Its deal with the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) means staff who work during the Games will see a minimum pay rise of £650 in 2012.

Tube train drivers are to receive a payment of at least £500 for working during next year's London Olympic Games after lobbying by union Aslef.

Ken Davidson, Head of Bus Operations at TfL, said:"London bus drivers are employed by private bus companies and their pay and conditions are set by those companies.

"We urge Unite and bus operators to work together to find a satisfactory solution to avoid unnecessary disruption to passengers and to keep London moving during the London 2012 Games."

Source: BBC News

[Doghandler2009]

Definatly blackmail

Let them go on strike my job will be a lot easier without a load of london buses cutting everyone up

[David]

Let them go on strike my job will be a lot easier without a load of london buses cutting everyone up

Perhaps, but what of the millions who aren't as lucky to be in your position?

Not sticking up for the strikers one way or the other in this particular post, but, millions do rely on public transport to get to their own jobs or the shops etc.

[Bas]

They're already paid to go to work. Why should they be paid more just because the Olympics are on???

Are other people working in London all getting extra just because of the olympics?

Too many people are striking for the sake of it nowadays, and they're doing themselves no favours. Fairly soon we'll see legislation being introduced/amended so it's not so easy to strike.

The turnouts in recent years are so low it's barely a legitimate ballot.

[Doghandler2009]

Perhaps, but what of the millions who aren't as lucky to be in your position?

Not sticking up for the strikers one way or the other in this particular post, but, millions do rely on public transport to get to their own jobs or the shops etc.

Yes your right that post may be a bit selfish

yes there a lots of people who rely on public transport but the fact that they are trying to hold the public to ramson when there be needed most has nothing to do with pay or conditions it is just a cheap shot from the unions to exploit the government.

I am normally all for the unions but 3 days pay and a day off for working a bank holiday and a huge pay rise thats just exploitation plain and simple theres 1 million plus unemployed and still time to train them before the olympics

They're already paid to go to work. Why should they be paid more just because the Olympics are on???

Are other people working in London all getting extra just because of the olympics?

Too many people are striking for the sake of it nowadays, and they're doing themselves no favours. Fairly soon we'll see legislation being introduced/amended so it's not so easy to strike.

The turnouts in recent years are so low it's barely a legitimate ballot.

Totally agree i have regulary been putting in 15 hours plus overtime with the run up to christmas so the shops are stocked can i have a bonus

[Bas]

Also, just to add, a hell of a lot of people now (me included) are contracted to work bank holidays.

If they chose to, their employers could serve 90 days notice to change their contracts to reduce their pay, include bank holidays and anything else they choose.

Some people don't realise how lucky they are, need a reality check, and need to stop with the greed.

[David]

The turnouts in recent years are so low it's barely a legitimate ballot.

Interesting you should say that. I'd been watching some of the political programmes at the time of the public sector action and someone had made this very point. Someone else, though, had done their figures and it would seem that projected (however they do it), strike action was taken on a bigger majority than Cameron winning the general election, which shut the Conservative MP up for a short while.

However, this emphasises the importance of voting. If people don't want to strike (or for that matter to go on strike) then it's up to them to get off their backsides and vote. As it is, it seems all the ballot papers come through the post and have SAE to be returned. If people can't be bothered to do even that, then frankly they deserve what they get. It could be argued that those who didn't vote wanted to go on strike, otherwise they would have voted no.

Nonetheless, of the turnout - however low it was - there was a thumping majority in favour of strike action. That's democracy isn't it?

[B_Rob]

A legal bid to stop Tube drivers walking out for 24 hours on Boxing Day in a row over pay will be heard later in the High Court.

London Underground (LU) said only 42% of the members of Aslef union voted to go on strike and LU will challenge the validity of the strike.

Aslef said it wants triple pay and a day off in lieu for drivers for working on 26 December - a bank holiday.

The union plans to strike again on 16 January as well as 3 and 13 February.

'Ill-feeling' Train drivers had walked out for 24 hours on Boxing Day in 2010 over pay and extra holiday.

Earlier a spokesman for Aslef said it does not expect LU's legal challenge to be successful and the court action would "increase ill-feeling".

Describing the threat of strike as "disgraceful", Howard Collins, LU's chief operating officer, said the firm has a long-standing agreement with all of its trade unions which covers working arrangements on public holidays.

A spokesman for Boris Johnson's office said the mayor was in "total support of the legal challenge".

A legal bid to stop Tube drivers walking out for 24 hours on Boxing Day in a row over pay will be heard later in the High Court.

London Underground (LU) said only 42% of the members of Aslef union voted to go on strike and LU will challenge the validity of the strike.

Aslef said it wants triple pay and a day off in lieu for drivers for working on 26 December - a bank holiday.

The union plans to strike again on 16 January as well as 3 and 13 February.

'Ill-feeling' Train drivers had walked out for 24 hours on Boxing Day in 2010 over pay and extra holiday.

Earlier a spokesman for Aslef said it does not expect LU's legal challenge to be successful and the court action would "increase ill-feeling".

Describing the threat of strike as "disgraceful", Howard Collins, LU's chief operating officer, said the firm has a long-standing agreement with all of its trade unions which covers working arrangements on public holidays.

A spokesman for Boris Johnson's office said the mayor was in "total support of the legal challenge".

Link Source

Here we go the greedy so and so's are at it again, really does anger you the way the LU staff get on. A little example here, the police have a different skill set and many have university degrees as well. The police are awarded well due to other factors such as the dangers that can arise in their job, and even then most are not earning what tube drivers earn. What about nurses? Paramedics, Fire and other rescue services, Yes they are well paid these days but they do a lot more than a tube driver, don't you think? Can't say from my personal experience that the customer service is top notch niether.

Edited by Rob Santa's Sack, 21 December 2011 - 06:15 AM.

[Onlyme2008]

Do I think it right they are going on strike, no, have they got a right to? Yes. We allowed public sector workers to strike 2 or 3 weeks ago,

[B_Rob]

Do I think it right they are going on strike, no, have they got a right to? Yes. We allowed public sector workers to strike 2 or 3 weeks ago,

Yes agreed they do have a right to strike, but these are people from lower income jobs such as cleaning and catering staff to janitors, administrators and learning support staff etc.These people are fighting for fair pay. It's also infuriating that the LU are still fighting this, although they are earning almost in excess of £50,000 which is far from fair in my opinion. And not only that they want more holidays on top of that. In my opinion I hope the High Court put a stop to their shenanigans once and for all.

[David]

I hope the High Court put a stop to their shenanigans once and for all.

The problem with that is that it could cause unpleasant ramifications for industrial action full stop. It could affect, as you mention above, the lower-paid in society, and their ability to fight for a just cause.

It is important to remember that, whilst these LT demands do seem unreasonable, it was the Unions that brought us all shorter working weeks and safe working conditions - not that I excuse any of the ridiculous actions taken in the 70s in any way at all.

[Onlyme2008]

I argree with David when it comes to court action, need to be careful what you wish for.

Is it time to out law strikes, I don't think it is.
Has for holding the country to ransom, the public sector workers did it 2 or 3 weeks ago.
I think the law needs to change, has to the percentages.

[B_Rob]

I argree with David when it comes to court action, need to be careful what you wish for.

Is it time to out law strikes, I don't think it is.
Has for holding the country to ransom, the public sector workers did it 2 or 3 weeks ago.
I think the law needs to change, has to the percentages.

Well only around 44% voted yes for this LU silly strike, and their still trying to go ahead with it. I take it your from London Onlyme and do realize the misery of turning up to a tube station at 5:30am only to discover that they are closed down. LU have probably had more silly strikes than actually turning up to do their job. Don't you think that around £50,000 plus all the other benefits that comes with the job is more than fair? And what do you mean the courts shouldn't do anything, I seem to think the opposite. Sorry but disrupting the working lives of thousand of people throughout the capital is appalling and should be brought to a halt.

[Onlyme2008]

Well only around 44% voted yes for this LU silly strike, and their still trying to go ahead with it. I take it your from London Onlyme and do realize the misery of turning up to a tube station at 5:30am only to discover that they are closed down. LU have probably had more silly strikes than actually turning up to do their job. Don't you think that around £50,000 plus all the other benefits that comes with the job is more than fair? And what do you mean the courts shouldn't do anything, I seem to think the opposite. Sorry but disrupting the working lives of thousand of people throughout the capital is appalling and should be brought to a halt.

I am from London, did you support the public sector workers? Should they have been stopped or stopped from doing it again? Or are we saying this group can hold the country to ransom, but this group can't.

[B_Rob]

I am from London, did you support the public sector workers? Should they have been stopped or stopped from doing it again? Or are we saying this group can hold the country to ransom, but this group can't.

I sure did onlyme2008, all I can say is most of the public sector do have a valid reason to go out and strike. But LU is just beyond a joke to be quite honest.

[Onlyme2008]

A Boxing Day strike by Tube drivers is set to go ahead after a High Court judge refused to halt it.




Mr Justice Eder said he was not going to grant an injunction halting the strike.

He said: "I recognise that this conclusion will cause disruption to the public who would want to use London Underground on Boxing Day. That is regrettable.

"But the decision which I have reached is, in my view, inevitable given the statutory framework laid down by Parliament."

[B_Rob]

A Boxing Day strike by Tube drivers is set to go ahead after a High Court judge refused to halt it.




Mr Justice Eder said he was not going to grant an injunction halting the strike.

He said: "I recognise that this conclusion will cause disruption to the public who would want to use London Underground on Boxing Day. That is regrettable.

"But the decision which I have reached is, in my view, inevitable given the statutory framework laid down by Parliament."

Disappointing really, but what can you do. It's a crying shame that they get away with this over and over again, disrupting the lives of many.

[Londonbased]

A Boxing Day strike by Tube drivers is set to go ahead after a High Court judge refused to halt it.




Mr Justice Eder said he was not going to grant an injunction halting the strike.

He said: "I recognise that this conclusion will cause disruption to the public who would want to use London Underground on Boxing Day. That is regrettable.

"But the decision which I have reached is, in my view, inevitable given the statutory framework laid down by Parliament."

Whatever the rights or wrongs of striking, this is the decision I expected from the court because this is exactly what happened when they tried to cancel the strike on last Boxing Day.
I don't know why London Underground decided to throw money at barristers thinking that circumstances had changed since last year.
I'm usually very pro-union and pro-public sector but I suspect this has more to do with tube drivers wanting to enjoy Christmas Day without having to worry about being random breath-tested the next day.
London Underground has a policy that all operational staff (station staff and revenue inspectors as well as tube drivers) can be randomly drink /drug tested and they must blow ZERO.
Even airline pilots can have a quick drop of the hard stuff but not train staff.
Many mainline train companies don't work Boxing Day and I think the tube should shut down on Boxing Day too so that people can get used to it and make alternate arrangements.
Christmas is different from other public holidays and I don't think it would hurt to close the transport system down for 2 days to allow people to spend time with their families instead.
I don't think anybody outside the emergency services should be made to work at Christmas.