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Driving without a valid tax disk..


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#1 ataylor0

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 11:31 AM

What is the penalty?

My car doesn't have tax at the moment.
Expired on the 31'st Aug, bought a new one which hasn't arrived yet.
So i'm stuck using my bike at the mo.

I was just curious as to what the penalty would be for people driving with out tax.
And is there a few days digression in which I can drive whilst waiting for my new disk to be delivered?

Edited by ataylor0, 03 September 2011 - 11:35 AM.


#2 thinblueline

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 11:49 AM

discretion*, and yes there is, as long as you've ordered it there is discretion (i heard it used to be 5 days and now it's 14 - can anyone actually confirm?)

#3 Wrighty112

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 11:49 AM

i think you get 5 days grace, untill it arrives.

#4 Myky

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 11:49 AM

What is the penalty?

My car doesn't have tax at the moment.
Expired on the 31'st Aug, bought a new one which hasn't arrived yet.
So i'm stuck using my bike at the mo.

I was just curious as to what the penalty would be for people driving with out tax.
And is there a few days digression in which I can drive whilst waiting for my new disk to be delivered?


I believe the grace period is the first 5 days of the month

"A change in the law comes into effect from 1 September 2008.

From this date, there will be an exemption from the offence in Section 33 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (VERA) of not displaying a valid tax disc. This will apply for the first five working days at the beginning of the month in which the tax disc commences.

It will be legal for motorists to drive or keep their vehicle on a public road without a current tax disc, for the first five working days of any month. This exemption from displaying a tax disc applies only when an application for a new disc has been made before the previous one has expired.

Motorists are advised to display the expired tax disc, however, they will be committing an offence if they continue to use or keep the vehicle on a public road without a current valid tax disc after the first five days of the month."

Source

#5 BazzaBill

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 11:52 AM

My understanding is that there's a 5 day period after the expiry of the old tax disc during which you can use the car on a public road provided that you've applied for a new one.

If you've applied online, I thought that you were sent an email confirming that an application had been made online. I'd keep that in the vehicle until the new disc is received from DVLA.

#6 HP99

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 12:13 PM

As long as you have applied it should not really matter.
Its DVLA who actually take action and even if someone tries to stick you on, the DVLA deal subsequently.
I'm not sure that they'd do a great deal if they already have your money and just not got the disk with you.

Tax disks are a bit of a throwback to the dark days without computers when it was the only way of showing you had paid your rent.

You can't seize an untaxed vehicle until 28 clear days have elapsed since the date of liabilty, ie 29th of the following month.

This page will allow you check what the DVLA has recorded for your vehicle http://www.taxdisc.d...k/EvlPortalApp/
Select "Vehicle Enquiry".

Apart from the 28 day rule, I thought that it also said that no action at all to be taken until 14 days had elapsed.

I'd keep the email from the online purchase and just crack on and drive.

Edited by HP99, 03 September 2011 - 12:14 PM.


#7 ataylor0

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 12:39 PM

discretion*

Thanks, Spell check lied to me..
Also, i didnt get an email confirming my purchase come to think of it.

Ok, thanks.
That makes things a bit easier.. I can drive now..

And whats the penalty if people drive with out tax?

Edited by ataylor0, 03 September 2011 - 12:44 PM.


#8 Damsel

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 12:48 PM

As long as you have applied it should not really matter.
Its DVLA who actually take action and even if someone tries to stick you on, the DVLA deal subsequently.
I'm not sure that they'd do a great deal if they already have your money and just not got the disk with you.

After the 5 days at the start of the month following expiry of the old disk, the police can (and often do, especially if it's well over 5 days) issue a £60 ticket for failing to display a valid excise licence. They would also submit a CLE 2/6 which goes off to the DVLA.

I don't think that anyone would be able to appeal the ticket, as the offence is complete after the first 5 days of the month and is absolute. You're either displaying a valid disk or your not. There's no grey area.

And whats the penalty if people drive with out tax?

A £60 ticket from the police (after the 1st 5 days of the month following expiry) and the police will submit intel to DVLA.

DVLA can ultimately come and clamp your vehicle, or remove and crush it.

Buying a tax disk works out much cheaper in the long run Posted Image

#9 brianb

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 12:49 PM

you have tax, the offence would be failing to dis[play a disc which is a fixed penaly of about 80 quid i believe

#10 Owen

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 12:54 PM

After the 5 days at the start of the month following expiry of the old disk, the police can (and often do, especially if it's well over 5 days) issue a £60 ticket for failing to display a valid excise licence. They would also submit a CLE 2/6 which goes off to the DVLA.

I don't think that anyone would be able to appeal the ticket, as the offence is complete after the first 5 days of the month and is absolute. You're either displaying a valid disk or your not. There's no grey area.


A £60 ticket from the police (after the 1st 5 days of the month following expiry) and the police will submit intel to DVLA.

DVLA can ultimately come and clamp your vehicle, or remove and crush it.

Buying a tax disk works out much cheaper in the long run Posted Image


I have seen two vehicles recently, parked outside their house with a clamp and a nice large sticker on the window 'UNTAXED VEHICLE'

How embarrassing! :huh: (The fault of the driver though!)

#11 ataylor0

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 01:19 PM

Right thanks.
I'm not stupid enough to drive with out tax so all is good!

Thanks for the info all..

#12 Careless Whisperer

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 06:13 PM

discretion*, and yes there is, as long as you've ordered it there is discretion (i heard it used to be 5 days and now it's 14 - can anyone actually confirm?)


It's not discretion, because he is committing no offences.

you have tax, the offence would be failing to dis[play a disc which is a fixed penaly of about 80 quid i believe


I actually thought the penalty for no tax was that or thereabouts, so I would like to think failing to display was less.

Only a complete jobsworth would stick someone on for failing to display in this day and age.

#13 HP99

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 06:18 PM

Indeed, back the dark old days with no computers the display of the disk was the only instant way of knowing if the vehicle WAS taxed or not.
Now its nothing more than an indication of the rent being paid or not. The ultimate record is DVLA.

You can display a valid disk but still not be taxed if the cheque bounces or stolen or cancelled, so you'd have to have had a seriously bad attitude at the roadside to be reported for not displaying a disk to me.

#14 DI Sam Tyler

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:24 PM

.....Only a complete jobsworth would stick someone on for failing to display in this day and age.


By "Jobsworth", if you are referring to a Constable doing things by the book, then what's wrong with that?
It's all very well discussing this topic with hindsight, in the cold light of day (or night), however if out on Patrol, and I see a vehicle on a Public road or Car Park, which is not displaying a valid tax disc (expired by more than 5 days as mentioned), or not even displaying one at all, I'd not think twice about issuing a CLE/2 and notifying the D.V.L.A. All road users have to cough-up for road tax, and are responsible for ensuring that a replacement is obtained and displayed in good time, so how / why would a Constable justify not "sticking someone on" when seeing such an Offence?

To be honest, I'm disappointed that taking the dilligent approach and doing the right thing, would fall under the catergory of "Jobsworth", at least coming from a Special / Regular Officer. A Member of the Public who had been issued a CLE/2 -yes, but not from a Special / Regular :(


DI Sam.

#15 Sceptre

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 10:48 PM

I actually thought the penalty for no tax was that or thereabouts, so I would like to think failing to display was less.

Only a complete jobsworth would stick someone on for failing to display in this day and age.


Failing to display is £200, it's written on the slip of paper tax discs come on. Tax discs are useful as a quick way of checking that boy racers haven't stuck some duff number plates they ordered on the internet onto their vehicle to outwit speed cameras, and the kind of people who don't have them are frequently the sort who don't worry about other trivialities such as MOTs or insurance.

#16 Wazimu0

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 11:08 PM

By "Jobsworth", if you are referring to a Constable doing things by the book, then what's wrong with that?
It's all very well discussing this topic with hindsight, in the cold light of day (or night), however if out on Patrol, and I see a vehicle on a Public road or Car Park, which is not displaying a valid tax disc (expired by more than 5 days as mentioned), or not even displaying one at all, I'd not think twice about issuing a CLE/2 and notifying the D.V.L.A. All road users have to cough-up for road tax, and are responsible for ensuring that a replacement is obtained and displayed in good time, so how / why would a Constable justify not "sticking someone on" when seeing such an Offence?

To be honest, I'm disappointed that taking the dilligent approach and doing the right thing, would fall under the catergory of "Jobsworth", at least coming from a Special / Regular Officer. A Member of the Public who had been issued a CLE/2 -yes, but not from a Special / Regular :(


DI Sam.

Well said! Fully agree!!!
As far as I'm aware, tax disc's are no longer a police matter. They are dealt with by DVLA only. That is why we have CLE/2 statements. So "stick em on" to inform DVLA of your observations and let them sort it out... but then follow this up with a quick PNC to see if there's anything else they haven’t bothered to pay for like Insurance or MOT.

Edited by Wazimu0, 03 September 2011 - 11:10 PM.


#17 Careless Whisperer

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 05:26 AM

By "Jobsworth", if you are referring to a Constable doing things by the book, then what's wrong with that?
It's all very well discussing this topic with hindsight, in the cold light of day (or night), however if out on Patrol, and I see a vehicle on a Public road or Car Park, which is not displaying a valid tax disc (expired by more than 5 days as mentioned), or not even displaying one at all, I'd not think twice about issuing a CLE/2 and notifying the D.V.L.A. All road users have to cough-up for road tax, and are responsible for ensuring that a replacement is obtained and displayed in good time, so how / why would a Constable justify not "sticking someone on" when seeing such an Offence?

To be honest, I'm disappointed that taking the dilligent approach and doing the right thing, would fall under the catergory of "Jobsworth", at least coming from a Special / Regular Officer. A Member of the Public who had been issued a CLE/2 -yes, but not from a Special / Regular :(


DI Sam.


Well said! Fully agree!!!
As far as I'm aware, tax disc's are no longer a police matter. They are dealt with by DVLA only. That is why we have CLE/2 statements. So "stick em on" to inform DVLA of your observations and let them sort it out... but then follow this up with a quick PNC to see if there's anything else they haven’t bothered to pay for like Insurance or MOT.


Are you both aware that you can check any vehicle's date of liability just by going online and entering its VRM and make? Our controllers do this for us. It takes minutes at most. The alternative that you are suggesting of filling a CLE form etc takes times and costs money, all unnecessarily. Like I said, in this day and age there should be next to no need to give a ticket/report someone for failing to display.

Failing to display is £200, it's written on the slip of paper tax discs come on. Tax discs are useful as a quick way of checking that boy racers haven't stuck some duff number plates they ordered on the internet onto their vehicle to outwit speed cameras, and the kind of people who don't have them are frequently the sort who don't worry about other trivialities such as MOTs or insurance.


£200 is the maximum fine upon conviction, which is different from the fixed penalty of £60 for no tax/failing to display.

#18 HP99

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 05:54 AM

DVLA guidance on No VEL seizures is pretty clear.
Under 14 days no action at all.
Over 14 days report to them
Over 28 days Seize.

That suggests to me that any 5 or 7 day type guideline is meaningless in reality.
The seizure thing is relatively new, certainly newer than anything like "fail to display", my personal gut feeling is that is now how DVLA would deal with it. That said nothing wrong with filling in the short form and submitting it.
Its all "work" for any returns spreadsheet !

#19 Big Brother

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 11:24 AM

I have seized a lot of vehicles in relation to Op Cubit over the years, however since the electronic checks came in I don't do a CLE/26 on someone who has paid their money and all thats happened is the disk has fallen out the holder or they put it in wrong. There's no fairness in it at all.

#20 ataylor0

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 12:00 PM

Tax disk won't arrive by tomorrow I doubt.. Which is the 5th day.. Am I alright to drive do you reckon?

#21 Myky

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 12:23 PM

Tax disk won't arrive by tomorrow I doubt.. Which is the 5th day.. Am I alright to drive do you reckon?


tomorrow yes. you could probably blag it for another few days if the rest of your car was up to scratch. but that depends on the officer i guess! they might be completely understanding they might feel a bit tight!

#22 Burnie

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 01:56 PM

Only a complete jobsworth would stick someone on for failing to display in this day and age.


I'm obviously a jobsworth then.

A couple of months ago I gave someone a £60 Non-Endorsible for failure to display. It was the 21st of the month and his displayed tax disc had been expired for 1 month 21 days. He stated that he had tax (PNC confirmed that he did hold a valid tax disc) but that it was on his table at home because "he couldn't be arsed to put it in". He drove away with a £60 ticket.

#23 The right to remain silent

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 03:10 PM

I'm obviously a jobsworth then.

A couple of months ago I gave someone a £60 Non-Endorsible for failure to display. It was the 21st of the month and his displayed tax disc had been expired for 1 month 21 days. He stated that he had tax (PNC confirmed that he did hold a valid tax disc) but that it was on his table at home because "he couldn't be arsed to put it in". He drove away with a £60 ticket.


If his attitude wasn't

"couldn't be arsed to put it in" (which is a terrible attitude to adopt)

but "I simply forgot and I'm sorry", would you still have written him a ticket?

#24 Careless Whisperer

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 03:26 PM

Tax disk won't arrive by tomorrow I doubt.. Which is the 5th day.. Am I alright to drive do you reckon?


The 5 days doesn't include weekends and bank holidays. I really wouldn't worry yourself, my own force's website even says it will take zero action against vehicles displaying tax discs up to 14 days after expiry.

I'm obviously a jobsworth then.

A couple of months ago I gave someone a £60 Non-Endorsible for failure to display. It was the 21st of the month and his displayed tax disc had been expired for 1 month 21 days. He stated that he had tax (PNC confirmed that he did hold a valid tax disc) but that it was on his table at home because "he couldn't be arsed to put it in". He drove away with a £60 ticket.


:D

Some of the attitudes in this thread are terrible to be honest. There seems to be something about traffic matters that turns some Specials into rigorous automatons, maybe it's because writing tickets is the extent of their abilities?

Edited by adslegend, 04 September 2011 - 03:28 PM.


#25 Myky

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 03:31 PM

The 5 days doesn't include weekends and bank holidays. I really wouldn't worry yourself, my own force's website even says it will take zero action against vehicles displaying tax discs up to 14 days after expiry.



:D

Some of the attitudes in this thread are terrible to be honest. There seems to be something about traffic matters that turns some Specials into rigorous automatons, maybe it's because writing tickets is the extent of their abilities?


whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!Posted Image