105 replies to this topic

[ammo1234]

i dont think there will be any recruitment of any type for regulars until after april next yr as the force have will have completed the continuous improvement model by then and officers will be in the posts they are supposed to be. The C.I model has identified where there are too many staff on an LPU and where there are more needed and so people are getting moved around. Once that is done they can look at any further shortfalls in staffing and see if they can recruit.

[JRPW]

i dont think there will be any recruitment of any type for regulars until after april next yr as the force have will have completed the continuous improvement model by then and officers will be in the posts they are supposed to be. The C.I model has identified where there are too many staff on an LPU and where there are more needed and so people are getting moved around. Once that is done they can look at any further shortfalls in staffing and see if they can recruit.

I didnt think there would be any recruitment for a good while. However with the way things are going surely it would be cheaper to recruit. There are officers regularly on OT some working 7 day weeks or 12 hours shifts. It must be costing the force, more importantly the tax payer a fortune!! As for identifying where the shortfalls are perhaps someone could just pick an LPU at random and take a stroll round and look at the officers in investigations with mounting paperwork, neighborhood teams that either don't exist or might as well not been as there is hardly any of them and finally response with mounting logs that aren't resourced, including immediate's!! Oh yes but of course Mr Cameron, police budget cuts are not affecting front line policing

Rant Over

[SEADOG]

Then we have the issue of who will they recruit from, PCSO's.........SC's..........the couple of hundred people that are already in the system?

Officially as it stands being a SC doesn't help you to become a full time PC, so what will happen to those people who were offered SC positions who were going through the full time PC applications at the time of the recruitment freeze? will they be able to carry on there PC applications etc?????

(note I am not one of these people, I haven't got a full time application in the pipe line yet)

[JRPW]

More importantly Seadog what about the SCs who will have a few years experience and service who havn't got current applications for the Regs?? Will the force go with people in the pipeline who have not gone down the special route or will they look favourably on the hard work that is put in by most of the SCs?? I believe a few forces have held small internal recruitments open to SCs and PCSOs. However I'm not sure if those forces already had a backlog of applicants similar to West Mids??

[MikeBrum]

If they've got ANY sense they'll progress those waiting in the system first, clear the backlog - those who became SCs who were in the reg system will be offered the chance to apply again, but not sit the AC or the medical, just a small papersift.

Then they'll recruit some more SCs. External recruitment for PCs if they need it/can afford it but they've replaced those lost and maintained their free workforce! Win win.

[danny b]

I didnt think there would be any recruitment for a good while. However with the way things are going surely it would be cheaper to recruit. There are officers regularly on OT some working 7 day weeks or 12 hours shifts. It must be costing the force, more importantly the tax payer a fortune!! As for identifying where the shortfalls are perhaps someone could just pick an LPU at random and take a stroll round and look at the officers in investigations with mounting paperwork, neighborhood teams that either don't exist or might as well not been as there is hardly any of them and finally response with mounting logs that aren't resourced, including immediate's!! Oh yes but of course Mr Cameron, police budget cuts are not affecting front line policing

Rant Over

Erm what are you doing on here...go and iron your plain clothes for tonight .

Anyway, it would make sense to recruit PCSO's from the pool first and then Specials. However it is unlikely. There are rumours but as with everything its all friend of a friend type of thing. Oh and CI has identified where there are too many officers??? I don't think so. CI has identified where the force is being desimated every shift.... namely West and Central. Every LPU is short, apart from maybe the Bham North. There are less officers and that effects service. Simple. There were savings to be made and the force was working better. However now any savings made must be being undone by the OT payments. I think what annoys me more than the Conservatives (who we all knew would cut public services) is the lack of bite from the national leaders of the PolFed in criticising the cuts.

Also annoying is the hypocrisy of Labour MPs who criticise lack of governent funding but do not moan about the lack of precept funds coming from the Labour run city council.

[SEADOG]

We all heard about the MET scraping all the people who were in there back log just over 2000 were told "thanks but no thanks"

I am SC with 2 years service in alot of hours a month and I get the feeling we'll be at the back of the queue no I joined as a SC as a taster to see if I wanted to do the job but will I get the chance to apply who knows lol

[JRPW]

I know it will upset some people but I will be in favor of them scrapping everyone in the system and starting again by initially recruiting internally from SCs and PCSOs. Of course I am biased. I'm an SC and I don't have a current Regs app.

It would be very rewarding if the work, effort and experience so many of us have gained is recognised as part of a formal application process. Of course there will be winners and losers whatever happens, however I'd like to come out a winner

[SEADOG]

My luck needs to change and it I was in some way lucky enough to be given the chance of become a PC then I'd jump at the chance!!!!!!

[MikeBrum]

I don't mean to upset anybody here but can't you see recruiting solely from their PCSOs and SCs isn't their answer - the PCSOs might make more sense since the plan is to recruit no more of them - the Specials are their voluntary free workforce, they're not going to want to try and let people who work for free move over to a paid role when they know the blind faith and commitment will remain there no matter what.

My plan is simple: They need to clear that backlog and progress those that want to, then recruit more externally (oh yes, no favouritism - sorry chaps) - then no current SC is lost - recruit more specials then announce internal recruitment for PCSOs, this starts removing PCSOs from circulation and utilising them in a more effective role, after this they can advertise another round of internal recruitment aimed at SCs (those with IPS) - these specials and PCSOs won't have to sit the PIRT, fitness or medical - they will however have to sit an interview - based solely around policing experience, customer service and your work ethic - also there'll be a character assessment requested from line managers within the specials.

The reason I've said let the PCSOs and externals go first is because they can't afford to lose that free workforce.

This plan works in two ways, it allows those waiting the chance to do the job, it then bulsters numbers with fresh SCs, before giving the existing stock a chance to go for PC with a slightly easier path.

At the end of the day they want fresh blood, not somebody who's worked for the organisation for a while and knows the flaws - that stands to reason!

My plan is designed to reduce wastage of money, by letting the PCSOs transfer over they get more bang for their buck and my making the PCSOs go first they then get more warranted officers - the existing specials will be staying as they'll guess (rightly) that the SCs can apply next, after the extra SCs (say 500 over 3/4 years) are taken on and gotten to IPS level - once this happens recruit from the SCs, say 250/300 regular posts - you've lost no free workforce, in fact you could have gained it - doing this you're also not paying those PCSOs and losing money hand over fist through losing your free officers!

Of course for this to work they also have to keep existing SCs happy!

[danny b]

So what you are saying in your plan MIke is that if you are an SC, you can't apply to beome a reg until they have found a replacement SC? Or am I misunderstanding? Because if being an SC was a bar to me joining as a reg, I would leave along with most of the other SC's who have a reg app on hold.
There are also not very many PCSO's from my experience that want to join as a reg. The roles are completely different.

[MikeBrum]

So what you are saying in your plan MIke is that if you are an SC, you can't apply to beome a reg until they have found a replacement SC? Or am I misunderstanding? Because if being an SC was a bar to me joining as a reg, I would leave along with most of the other SC's who have a reg app on hold.
There are also not very many PCSO's from my experience that want to join as a reg. The roles are completely different.

No, I'm not saying that - I'm saying that it'd make sense to recruit more SCs before they recruit PCs from the Specials.

Where did I say that? And if you read it I said those on hold/in the system would get the chance to progress first! It includes the SCs who were transferred from the regs!

[Ducky]

So what you are saying in your plan MIke is that if you are an SC, you can't apply to beome a reg until they have found a replacement SC? Or am I misunderstanding? Because if being an SC was a bar to me joining as a reg, I would leave along with most of the other SC's who have a reg app on hold.
There are also not very many PCSO's from my experience that want to join as a reg. The roles are completely different.

If you think about it, Mike is entirely correct.

Why would a force want to give up their free workforce? They wouldn't, nor do they owe any favours to the Special Constabulary, it's a voluntary organisation. These things are thought up by HR departments and accountants. There is a significant backlog of regular applicants in the system, they might still be binned however even if they are, it still makes more sense to make recruitment open from a financial point of view. Forces are currently taking on specials to make up for the lack of regular officers, when funding is restored and recruitment opens it's quite unlikely they'll be happy for the SC to shrink back to it's pre-cuts level, and the number of Regs taken on will be significantly lower than in the past.

At the end of the It's unwise to use the SC as a stepping stone into the regular force in this current climate, because your force could always ban their specials from applying (quite likely) and you will lose out to an external applicant. I know it doesn't sound fair, but at the end of the day this all comes down to economics.

[SEADOG]

seems to have worked ok for the Met, recruiting from Internally

Personally I would like to see a quota system in place for a % would come from external.......% would be internal so it gives everyone a chance then.

[MikeBrum]

seems to have worked ok for the Met, recruiting from Internally

Personally I would like to see a quota system in place for a % would come from external.......% would be internal so it gives everyone a chance then.

There's a simple reason, the Met's had it working well - something West Mids haven't, can't and won't do - they've been recruiting SCs none stop since 2009, having anyone and everyone.

[Ducky]

seems to have worked ok for the Met, recruiting from Internally

Personally I would like to see a quota system in place for a % would come from external.......% would be internal so it gives everyone a chance then.

It's the culture within the Met, one that will not permeate to our local forces. The Met are also throwing money around like there's no tomorrow, something they are allowed to get away with. No force in the Midlands could even begin to consider continuing recruitment as they have.

Edited by Ducky, 13 August 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[danny b]

My plan is simple: They need to clear that backlog and progress those that want to, then recruit more externally (oh yes, no favouritism - sorry chaps) - then no current SC is lost - recruit more specials then announce internal recruitment for PCSOs, this starts removing PCSOs from circulation and utilising them in a more effective role, after this they can advertise another round of internal recruitment aimed at SCs (those with IPS) - these specials and PCSOs won't have to sit the PIRT, fitness or medical - they will however have to sit an interview - based solely around policing experience, customer service and your work ethic - also there'll be a character assessment requested from line managers within the specials.

The reason I've said let the PCSOs and externals go first is because they can't afford to lose that free workforce.

This plan works in two ways, it allows those waiting the chance to do the job, it then bulsters numbers with fresh SCs, before giving the existing stock a chance to go for PC with a slightly easier path.

At the end of the day they want fresh blood, not somebody who's worked for the organisation for a while and knows the flaws - that stands to reason!

My plan is designed to reduce wastage of money, by letting the PCSOs transfer over they get more bang for their buck and my making the PCSOs go first they then get more warranted officers - the existing specials will be staying as they'll guess (rightly) that the SCs can apply next, after the extra SCs (say 500 over 3/4 years) are taken on and gotten to IPS level - once this happens recruit from the SCs, say 250/300 regular posts - you've lost no free workforce, in fact you could have gained it - doing this you're also not paying those PCSOs and losing money hand over fist through losing your free officers!

Of course for this to work they also have to keep existing SCs happy!

I thought when you said no SC is lost, that you meant there would be a bar to joining if you were an SC.
Not sure about the other comment either. I think they want people with as much experience and training as possible so that they don't have to be train as many people in IT, driving etc.

Edited by danny b, 14 August 2012 - 03:34 PM.

[MikeBrum]

You're saying that but it'd cost a lot less to upgrade a PCSOs pay by 8k instead of a specials by 26k! Recruiting from externally doesn't mean they're saying no to SCs, as I said experienced specials would, after the others get a chance to apply to the regs! It's not a bar, it's just a case of waiting

[danny b]

Ah ok. I agree that PCSO's should be pushed through first however I doubt there are many that want to join as a PC.

[Midsman1]

Will be interesting to see what happens as and when they open again. I'm less inclined these days to join full time for various reasons, I'm 28 now and it's looking likely that I'd be 30ish before recruitment was open, I earn a decent wage with payrise and a decent bonus insight this year that I'd lose if I joined the job potentially losing out based on starting salary and working hours etc.
I think really they would need to make everyone reapply alot of time has passed since they completed their applications and checks were conducted so that would all need looking at again. Plus from my experience some of those who came into the SC from the suspended application stage were a joke and are not fit to wear the uniform and infact one I know has a terrible shock waiting for him after being booted from the specials after about 8 months who thinks he will make it back into the regs induction!

[vxdh]

I have rumours that WMP will be opening recruitment in 2013

[Midsman1]

That rumour mill sure is working hard lol!
Even if it opens you will be applying for a job starting at 19K for the foreseeable future, with limited chances of promotion of specialism!

[ammo1234]

The latest updates we were given was no new troops till 2014 but the new pcc is still pushing to get whats owed to WMP by the govt precept. If that comes through he has said he wants to end A19 retirements and restart some recruitment.

[tallypear]

I'll not quit my day job just yet. But the fingers remain firmly crossed. Like they have been since the freeze started...

[honestyvo]

any news on the SC recruitment front? as by the sounds of it PC recruitment is a bit unsure.

 

thanks everyone.