1029 replies to this topic

[Gabba]

BBC Dale Farm

Click to play

"One traveller said they would set gas cylinders on fire and use petrol bombs"

Eviction notices have been served on families living illegally at England's largest travellers' site.

Basildon Council has given people living on 51 unauthorised pitches at Dale Farm, Essex, until the end of August to leave.

More than 400 travellers currently live at the former scrapyard.

About half of the 100 pitches do not have planning permission. Travellers began to set up pitches illegally on the greenbelt land in 2001.

The notice requires them to vacate the land or the council will enter and dismantle the camp.

Kathleen McCarthy, from Dale Farm, said a lot of the travellers were very distressed at the notices being served.

'People left homeless' Policing the clearance of what is thought to be the largest traveller site in Europe could cost up to £9.5m.

The first £2.5m in costs are to be met by Essex Police Authority (EPA). The next £2.4m is to be shared equally between the Home Office and Basildon Council.

A further £2.3m in costs will be met by the Home Office alone who will then share the remainder with the EPA.

Richard Sheridan, president of the Gypsy Council, said it was unlikely residents would leave before the 28-day deadline expired.

He said: "You have to ask if it is value for money for taxpayers to pay millions for the police operation and millions more when these people are left homeless.

'Poor advice' "They will not leave voluntarily so I suppose the police will have to go in and I don't suppose the residents will welcome them with open arms."

Basildon Council leader Tony Ball said he was "concerned that a number of campaigners are giving poor advice to the travellers, leading them to pursue continual challenges rather than urging them to make preparations to leave".

Mr Ball added: "I believe this has given the travellers false hope as it has made them believe a last-minute legal ruling could stop the site clearance. I feel these campaigners are doing a great disservice to the people they are attempting to help.

"As a result, over the years few people on this site have accepted our offers of help. That said, there is still absolutely no reason why children, the elderly or vulnerable should end up on the roadside."

ok so there go on telly to say they will fight to the death and use gas and petrol bombs. I hope Essex police are ready for this

[brett24]

BBC Dale Farm

Click to play

"One traveller said they would set gas cylinders on fire and use petrol bombs"



ok so there go on telly to say they will fight to the death and use gas and petrol bombs. I hope Essex police are ready for this

As bad as it sounds should they not just be left there, is there no other solution? I know thats not the popular thing to do but theres women and children there, well going off the photo that is. Also that is their home (I know not popular again) reguardless of how they of obtained it some people could have been there for 9 years. Hmm I dunno how you would get round this problem.

[Gabba]

As bad as it sounds should they not just be left there, is there no other solution? I know thats not the popular thing to do but theres women and children there, well going off the photo that is. Also that is their home (I know not popular again) reguardless of how they of obtained it some people could have been there for 9 years. Hmm I dunno how you would get round this problem.

simple answer it's not their land, they have no right to be there, I don't know if they are paying rent or council tax but I am sure they are costing the tax payer a fortune

[brett24]

simple answer it's not their land, they have no right to be there, I don't know if they are paying rent or council tax but I am sure they are costing the tax payer a fortune

Hence why I say is there not some other solution? It does not sit well with me that the police are going to evict them from their home, but that is a personal opinion not professional/relastic opinion.

[Hades]

Fingers crossed for some mutual aid!

They were saying on the news today that it's unlikely that the evictions will take place before August.

I'm not entirely sure how they'd go about doing it logistically - it'd need a huge amount of staff from both the police and the security companies working for the bailiffs...


EDIT: Also, I'm loving how they're implying they'll use their babies as human shields... Scum.

[JH99]

How can they have been there for 9 years... I just don't get it. Surely it be easier to just let them stay and that they got lucky

[brett24]

Really Hades Scum?

[Gabba]

How can they have been there for 9 years... I just don't get it. Surely it be easier to just let them stay and that they got lucky

I gather that part of it is legal but it just got bigger and out of hand

[Whopper MacBig]

I'm sure this will make great TV, but not sure to what end. It's hardly as if they are just going to drive off into the sunset once they've been put back on the road, rather they'll just pitch up somwhere else and the process starts all over again.

[Chewie]

Really Hades Scum?

What word would you use to describe people that say they'll use babies as human shields, then? Misunderstood?

[Smeders]

Why not just sell them the land!?

[JH99]

What word would you use to describe people that say they'll use babies as human shields, then? Misunderstood?

I don't think it was meant literally, but metaphorically

Like others have said... where are they going to go. Disappear into the ether?

[Andrew999]

Why not just sell them the land!?

Well, not sure who owns the land but the article said about half don't have planning permission, but that means half do. This isn't a crusade against travellers, but against those who won't play by the rules. Rules that are there for a reason - to prevent overcrowding, sanitation problems for example I would imagine.

But I do see the point about what can be achieved by such an operation when they will ultimately just move along elsewhere.

[Smeders]

Well, not sure who owns the land but the article said about half don't have planning permission, but that means half do. This isn't a crusade against travellers, but against those who won't play by the rules. Rules that are there for a reason - to prevent overcrowding, sanitation problems for example I would imagine.

But I do see the point about what can be achieved by such an operation when they will ultimately just move along elsewhere.

Yeah they spend £9.5million now, they move on and have to spend another £9.5million or more on the next site. If im reading this right just the ones without permission are being removed?

[brett24]

What word would you use to describe people that say they'll use babies as human shields, then? Misunderstood?

There not scum at all and from what I've seen of the video it just looked liked people defending their home and yes I do know how they aquired their homes, but in my opinion the coucil has let it be dragged out too long. After 9 years people have made a life there children have grown up there and I doubt the mothers would actually use their children as shields, the time to move those people has come and past. That comment of scum really upset me, they are not scum they are people like you or me, as I've already said I do not agree with the police moving them its not one or two people thats a community. It might not be the community some people on this thread would like to see, but they are one. There are better ways of dealing with this and I think we all know that.

[Heimdall]

"...they are people like you or me..."

-Well I don't hint at using babies as human shields. Guess they're not people like me.
Let them have your back garden, brett24.

[Chewie]

they are not scum they are people like you or me...

They're not like me at all... I have every right to live where I do, I pay my council tax, I would never even make a joke of using children as human shields, and I would never use petrol bombs and gas canisters against police (or anyone else, come to that).

Incidentally, how can they be regarded as travellers if they're living in a fixed position for 9 years? Surely the very nature of a traveller is a desire to travel?

[Killicksparker]

Like others have said... where are they going to go.

Ireland !

Edited by Killicksparker, 04 July 2011 - 09:34 PM.

[brett24]

People lets not have this turn into personal slants or a rant about travellers, and lets use a bit of common sense on this one I think they were using their children to make a point about defending their homes. All im saying is that in my opinion the issue has grown to the point where I think using the police or trying to evict them is highly inappropriate. Now I dont like what they have done as much as the next chap and its even happened in my village but the point is its happened. The travellers have now intergrated into our community their kids go to the local primary school and they are nice people now thats only 4 years down the line, and I would hate to see them moved out of their homes. And they are like you or me I find it disgusting that some of you wont give them the time of day just because they dont pay taxes, it annoys me but I would never go as far as ostracising them for that. Give them a chance there will be some people on this forum that will not liked what I have said but this is a forum for open discussion not just one mindedness.

Thanks for the negs Im just trying to put another point of view across guys.

Edited by brett24, 04 July 2011 - 09:35 PM.

[Chewie]

And they are like you or me I find it disgusting that some of you wont give them the time of day just because they dont pay taxes...

Err... did you miss the bit about petrol bombs and setting light to gas canisters and using them against the police? Like I said, not like me.

[Gabba]

I find it disgusting that some of you wont give them the time of day just because they dont pay taxes,

I fine, arrest and happy not to give the time of day to tax dodgers, I pay most of my pay on tax's I really dislike the ones who think they don't need to!

[brett24]

Err... did you miss the bit about petrol bombs and setting light to gas canisters and using them against the police? Like I said, not like me.

Try and look past that im sure we have all said and done things in the heat of the moment. The travelling community are a robust community so sometime what they do might come across as a bit hasty or threatening. But just try and see past that. Level heads will prevail.

Some of you are serving officers on here and you have such a prejudice against travellers this forum has really upset me in a way I never thought it could tonight.

[Sam Vimes]

They have to be kicked off otherwise it'll be open season on the green belt for anyone with a caravan and some tyres to burn to go and set up a 'home' there. What if you owned a nice big field and all of a sudden overnight (yes it happens overnight) a little community had moved onto it? Would your opinion still be 'give them a chance'? NIMBY'ism at it's finest.

What hacks me off is that the 'normal' member of the community struggles for permission for a conservatory, or an extension, or to cut down a damn tree, and if you fall foul of the planner boy do you know about it. Yet they can set up their own town on land that isn't theirs and it stays there for 9 years! That's my gripe, that it's one law for them, another for the rest of us.

Give me the keys to wrecking ball and i'll take the place down, I won't even charge for my time.

[Hades]

Really Hades Scum?

Yes. My opinion is that those who would suggest, whether they mean it or not, that they would use their children as human shields, and that they would allow their babies to die in order to resist an eviction are utter scum.

I'm sure this will make great TV, but not sure to what end. It's hardly as if they are just going to drive off into the sunset once they've been put back on the road, rather they'll just pitch up somwhere else and the process starts all over again.

I agree - I wouldn't be surprised if most of them pitch up within a couple of miles. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a plan in the making to all go somewhere specific...

I don't think it was meant literally, but metaphorically

I wouldn't be too sure to be honest...


Having been involved in traller

There not scum at all and from what I've seen of the video it just looked liked people defending their home and yes I do know how they aquired their homes, but in my opinion the coucil has let it be dragged out too long. After 9 years people have made a life there children have grown up there and I doubt the mothers would actually use their children as shields, the time to move those people has come and past. That comment of scum really upset me, they are not scum they are people like you or me, as I've already said I do not agree with the police moving them its not one or two people thats a community. It might not be the community some people on this thread would like to see, but they are one. There are better ways of dealing with this and I think we all know that.

So you compare yourself with the people in the video who are talking about using petrol bombs and flaming gas canisters against the bailiffs and police when they enforce a lawful eviction?

Oh, and it's not the police moving them. It's the council, supported by bailiffs and security guards having obtained an order from a court (no doubt after many years of legal wrangling). The police will be in attendance to deal with any offences that occur at the time (but there wont be any offences will there, brett22...).

[Chewie]

Try and look past that im sure we have all said and done things in the heat of the moment.

Have you ever said that you'd use kids as human shields, or use gas and petrol bombs against police 'in the heat of the moment'? No, and neither have I.

I've never had to face anyone threatening me with petrol bombs, but I've had people pull weapons and threaten to stab or shoot me - should I treat them with kid gloves and try and understand them too? After all, they're only acting in the heat of the moment, aren't they? Perhaps when you've seen it from this side of the fence you'll have a different view.