10 replies to this topic

[SC Meerkat]

Braintree murders: Police had been called before, neighbours say
Neighbours of a mother and young girl found dead after a shooting incident in Essex have expressed concerns that police could have prevented the deaths.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) is investigating the incident in Bartram Avenue, Braintree, which happened in the early hours.

The deaths of Christine Chambers, 38, and her two-year-old daughter Shania are being treated as murder.

A neighbour shouted at police: "You knew this was going to happen."

A 50-year-old man is under armed guard in hospital.

The man is being treated for gunshot wounds at Broomfield Hospital, Chelmsford, but his injuries are not thought to be life-threatening.

Officers had spent almost two hours negotiating with him. They are not looking for anyone else in connection with the investigation.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge told a press conference that a shotgun had been recovered from the scene.

He said a post-mortem examination on Ms Chambers and her daughter would take place later to determine how they died.

They were found dead by police who had been called to the scene at about 0300 BST. Another child is said to have escaped out of a back window.

The IPCC said there was sufficient concern to send two officers to Essex to decide whether to launch a full investigation.

'Horror film' Another neighbour, who declined to be named, said of Ms Chambers: "She had called the police before on several occasions and there had been a lot of problems in the past.

"Like everybody, she had her ups and downs and we knew there were problems.

"We knew she was worried about what might happen to her and it seemed she was living in fear."

It is believed that Ms Chambers and the man who is under armed guard had been due to appear at Chelmsford County Court on Monday in connection with a family proceedings hearing.

Neighbour Tony Challis said police arrived at the house at 0300 BST and spent around two hours negotiating with the gunman.

Officers could be seen attempting to talk to him through the letter-box.

He added: "It was about 0445 BST when we heard two gunshots from inside the house. We saw officers rushing through the door.

"Everybody was out on the street watching. We couldn't believe what was happening."

The BBC's Mike Cartwright said neighbours had told him an eight-year-old who was in the property had climbed out of the window and gone to a nearby house.

Neighbour Karen Ballisat told BBC Look East: "I was woken by police saying 'your house is surrounded, don't move or we'll shoot you'.

"I looked out the window and saw police with guns and it looked like something out of a horror film."

She said Ms Chambers was "lovely, always laughing, a lovely lady", while Shania was "a very happy, bubbly little girl".

Link = http://www.bbc.co.uk...-essex-13673320




Without knowing the in's and out's it is hard to tell if the police could have stopped this or not, but it appears as the residents have already come to their conclusions!

No doubt the IPCC will be thoroughly investigating this one in light of the allegations.

Edited by SC Meerkat.com, 06 June 2011 - 03:54 PM.

[Obsidian_Eclipse]

Its a sad state of affairs. My thoughts are with the family.

Sadly despite numerous interventions things can go badly and we can't see into the future. There are some neighbourhoods, and they might not even be the worst, where the police can receive 30+ calls a month and sometimes 4+ a day. Untill proper sanctions and sentences can be put into place and until other welfare agencies can accept their portion of responsibilities things won't change - that any people take individual responsibility for themselves.

[Sam Vimes]

I can think of numerous couples on my area who have domestics day in and day out; they go out drinking together, come home and argue, one hits the other or steals their lighter, we get called, an allegation made, the offender arrested (positive action people!), the victim refuse to give a statement, the DASH assessment completed (again).

Interviewed, no comment, NFA as no complaint, repeat indefinitely until the end of time.

You can't physically keep two people away who want to get in touch. Police may have been called to this address time and time again, and the man (for instance) may have been arrested numerous times for DV-related things, but it all means nothing if (for instance) the next day the female says sorry and invites him round for a drink.

Either we lock everyone up because they have the potential to become a gun-wielding mentalist, or we keep attending and offering support to people in these situations but leave the decision of whether or not to accept that support with them. You can't force help onto someone and if it turns out that this female has done herself no favours I hope it's reportedly as loudly and as quickly as the Police-bashing is.

I look forward to hearing the no doubt biased reporting of the facts in the coming weeks.

[Random~name]

As terrible a tragedy this is I like many others on here disagree it is the polices fault, our crystal ball must havehad a bit of a smear on the glass that day. Or maybe the fact that some people use and abuse the emergency services to the point they have created the barriers to prosecution themselves by being unreliable witnesses and victims, by not assisting us in the first place, or by completely embellishing the truth in order to get their own way. I in no way am saying that this was the case here because I simply do not know if it is or isn't, and it would be inappropriate of me to say so even if I did, however the public needs to get some real perspective. We cannot babysit people constantly. We have a duty to everyone and sadly that means sometimes we can't be in two places at once nor can we see into the future.

[Reek]

I really don't know what to make of this. It's a difficult situation, for both the family affected, and Essex Police.

As terrible a tragedy this is I like many others on here disagree it is the polices fault, our crystal ball must havehad a bit of a smear on the glass that day. Or maybe the fact that some people use and abuse the emergency services to the point they have created the barriers to prosecution themselves by being unreliable witnesses and victims, by not assisting us in the first place, or by completely embellishing the truth in order to get their own way. I in no way am saying that this was the case here because I simply do not know if it is or isn't, and it would be inappropriate of me to say so even if I did, however the public needs to get some real perspective. We cannot babysit people constantly. We have a duty to everyone and sadly that means sometimes we can't be in two places at once nor can we see into the future.

+1

"The police are too focused on local policing, it's a waste of resources, they should be catching the real criminals."

"The police haven't done enough for us in our community, where were they when we needed them?"

You'll never please everybody. But people don't seem to give a toss what we do, until it affects them.

[CmdKeen]

As usual Inspector Gadget says it better than I could.

[Midsman1]

As usual Inspector Gadget says it better than I could.

Firstly what a terrible tragedy and for the child that managed to escape she will forever be haunted by what this male has done to her mum and sister my thoughts with her and the family!

Gadgets post on this sums it up nicely IMO, we can only do so much and im sure if there were failings they will be highlighted by the IPCC at the earliest but for those that have spent time on shift who have gone to the same house week on week or month on month where the same advice is given and actions are taken yet it continues then you will know that sometimes even with the best efforts and intentions its a vicious cycle that only the victim can break and sometimes thats a very hard decision for them to make!

[Rocket]

IPCC are to lauch investigation after their assessment yesterday;

Independent investigation launched following double murder in Braintree

7 June 2011


The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has launched an independent investigation looking at police involvement in the case of Christine and Shania Chambers, who were found dead at their home in Braintree.



The case was referred to the IPCC yesterday, when Essex Police became aware that Christine Chambers had previously reported incidents to them. IPCC investigators have been in Essex looking at the evidence currently available, and it has been decided that an independent investigation will be carried out.



The extent of this previous reporting is still being collated, but appears to span approximately 2 years. The most recent contact with police at this stage appears to have been on 27 May 2011, when Christine provided a statement to police in which she reported that she was being pestered and harassed.



IPCC Commissioner Rachel Cerfontyne said: "Nobody could fail to have been shocked by what happened in Braintree yesterday and my thoughts are with Christine and Shania's family. Our independent investigation will focus on the previous reports to police and how they responded.



"We have to be very mindful that there is a double murder enquiry underway and we therefore need to be cautious about the information we make public at this stage so as not to interfere with that ongoing investigation.



"At this stage, it is too early to say whether police responded appropriately to each incident and this is something that will take time to establish, but we will make our findings public as soon as we are able."




Ends



Issued by Trish Keville, IPCC Press Officer for London and south east on 0207 166 3130.

[Onlyme2008]

I don't know the full story here, this is not about it being the polices fault, or crystal balls working or not working,

Its about could/should the police done more? Now on the news clip I saw there was a very angery man who clearly thought they could/should. (just one view from one side I know)

To be honest it won't be the first case were someone has been let down by the system, (may I add the complete system not just 1 part of it)

[CmdKeen]

The police "could always do more" - however even in we lived in a police state with vast numbers of officers we would still not be able to prevent every crime. Especially when it comes to issues like domestic violence which tend to transcend "rational" criminality which can be more easily deterred.

The question is "could the police realistically have done more". And it should frankly also be "could the criminal justice system have done more"

[Obain]

So we should have done more and yet when we turn up to domestics its a police state and we're interferring in other peoples lives?