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Seatbelt for driver and adult passengers


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#26 sipin

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 07:23 PM

Never should it be optional, it's quite clear that you have not had to deal with someone that has gone through the windscreen before, it's not a plesent sight, and your statement to justify not wearing one........

And what if you are wearing one and your car topples and you can't get out because the seatbelt has trapped you and if the car catches fire???

Let's look at what happens if you don't wear a seatbelt when the car topples over: WARNING Video contains distressing image ! http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2SWAG6mqXXQ

It's not known if the man survied the crash, and the vehicle didn't even burst in to flames !!!!!

There are also other pictures here: http://www.motorwatc.../video/main.htm

Edited by sipin, 02 June 2011 - 07:25 PM.


#27 Londonbased

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 07:34 PM

I have been driving for over thirty years and I never used to wear a seatbelt before they became compulsory because it wasn't the norm.
I only started wearing them when the law changed.
And I'm so glad the law is as it stands now.
I had an accident in the late 80s where my car came off the road and landed upside down in a ditch.
I was completely unharmed because I wore a seatbelt.

#28 Chewie

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 09:11 PM

And what if you are wearing one and your car topples and you can't get out because the seatbelt has trapped you and if the car catches fire???

Although it's possible that a car could catch fire following a crash, the only time you're ever likely to see it happen is in a film.

Assuming that it does happen though, the likelihood of you being in a fit state to escape from the vehicle is extremely slim if you weren't wearing a seatbelt at the time - if you're lucky, you'll have better things to worry about, like broken bones, ruptured organs, and internal bleeding. If you're not lucky however, you're probably beyond any help that we can offer.

Still, at least you were comfortable. :(

#29 boroughtrainer

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 09:26 PM

Let's look at what happens if you don't wear a seatbelt when the car topples over: WARNING Video contains distressing image ! http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2SWAG6mqXXQ


No wonder Johnny Vegas turned to drink after that the poor sod! :(

#30 Marty McFly

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:49 PM

Hi, at times, wearing a seatbelt makes you feel very uncomfortable. It should be optional as to whether the driver wants to wear it or not and they should NOT get fined for not wearing it! End of the day, I don't think they cause anyone any harm if they choose not to wear it. Mrs Merlin, feel free to comment (harsh or nice) B-)


im assuming you've never seent the video where the idiot not wearing a seatbelt gets tumbled around the car during an RTC directly killing one other passenger and putting another in intensive care while they end up ok? :unsure:

#31 CmdKeen

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:53 PM

Immediate practical reasons exist as well. Firstly passengers in the rear seats can cause severe injury to those in the front seat if they don't belt up. There was a very graphic government video a few years back where the rear passenger kills the front passenger during a crash.

Secondly RTCs often involve multiple people - and can overwhelm emergency services. Especially in rural areas where many of the high speed RTCs occur. Reducing the number of casualties, or severity of injuries, can mean the difference between the one ambulance in the area being totally swamped and it being able to treat everyone involved.

It is not a choice which only affects you, there are "3rd party harms" as the philosophers say - which is the foundational principle of when the state takes away your rights.

#32 Arbiter

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:57 PM

I don't find seatbelts uncomfortable, and even if I did I would still wear one, mainly because I value my life more than my level of comfort.

And no, they shouldn't be optional.

Edited by MarkS, 02 June 2011 - 10:58 PM.


#33 oddbod

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:10 AM

Hi, at times, wearing a seatbelt makes you feel very uncomfortable. It should be optional as to whether the driver wants to wear it or not and they should NOT get fined for not wearing it! End of the day, I don't think they cause anyone any harm if they choose not to wear it.


Then don't wear it but please don't grizzle when you get stuck on (or bleed on my shiny boots).

#34 boroughtrainer

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 08:45 AM

Hi, at times, wearing a seatbelt makes you feel very uncomfortable. It should be optional as to whether the driver wants to wear it or not and they should NOT get fined for not wearing it! End of the day, I don't think they cause anyone any harm if they choose not to wear it. Mrs Merlin, feel free to comment (harsh or nice) :)


Fine don't wear it, and when you get mushed up against the screen, I'll gladly scoop you up and shovel you into a bin liner and drop you off home to either die, or recover from your considerable wounds.

There will be a charge for the delivery though.:rolleyes:


Oh and until you get the law changed, i'll be glad to give you an FPN when you not wearing it without exemption.

#35 Enraged flea 1

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 09:29 AM

Hi, at times, wearing a seatbelt makes you feel very uncomfortable. It should be optional as to whether the driver wants to wear it or not and they should NOT get fined for not wearing it! End of the day, I don't think they cause anyone any harm if they choose not to wear it. Mrs Merlin, feel free to comment (harsh or nice) :rolleyes:


Well it will make it easier to identify you as we could all ways pull your teeth from the steering wheel. If you Injure or kill your self as you do not wear it then quite frankly I have no sympathy for you. But if you Kill Someone else in your car for not wearing it. Then In my opinion you need to be locked up for a very very long time.

#36 Rocket

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 09:36 AM

Will cooldude get an 'anti-popular' star on his post if he manages to break the -30 barrier?

#37 Waddle

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 09:45 AM

Hi, at times, wearing a seatbelt makes you feel very uncomfortable. It should be optional as to whether the driver wants to wear it or not and they should NOT get fined for not wearing it! End of the day, I don't think they cause anyone any harm if they choose not to wear it. Mrs Merlin, feel free to comment (harsh or nice) :D


When is it ever uncomfortable? I don't get that argument at all.

Fine don't wear it, and when you get mushed up against the screen, I'll gladly scoop you up and shovel you into a bin liner and drop you off home to either die, or recover from your considerable wounds.

There will be a charge for the delivery though.:rolleyes:


Oh and until you get the law changed, i'll be glad to give you an FPN when you not wearing it without exemption.


Maybe there should be a exemption section on the driving licence stating that very thing if that is what people want :)

#38 GoneForgotten

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 09:58 AM

Where it or don't, the nanny state really shouldn't get involved. If someone, at no risk to anyone but themselves doesn't want to wear a seatbelt let them crack on.

#39 hannah88

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 10:11 AM

My seat belt has never been uncomfortable.....I even pull it tighter so it's nice and snug! :huh:

#40 Javioli

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 10:58 AM

I actually find driving without a seatbelt on weird and uncomfortable.



Absolutely. I do find it odd to not wear a belt now.


I've been a taxi driver and I never wore one and felt much comfy not wearing the seatbelt.


It depends what kind of licence you have. A Hackney carriage doesn't have to wear seat belts at all. Private hire drivers have to wear a seat belt when they DON'T have a passenger but may take it off when they have a passenger.

#41 Rorschach

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 11:02 AM

Where it or don't, the nanny state really shouldn't get involved. If someone, at no risk to anyone but themselves doesn't want to wear a seatbelt let them crack on.


You left yourself logged in at a Freemen netcafe?

#42 GoneForgotten

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 11:09 AM

You left yourself logged in at a Freemen netcafe?


No :huh: +1 BTW

But there is a certain something to be said for not sticking your oar in. Peoples lives are saved by these things but we don't tell people, hey, you wanna go mountain biking? You must wear a helmet. Well what happens if I just don't want to. Where does it stop? I always do wear a lid but if someone doesn't want to, then, well, let them. For example we don't say to road cyclists, don't compete in competitions, it's dangerous you might die.

There are plenty of things we do which we do because we want to and we put ourselves in harms way. We don't tell mountain climbers not to, just in case they fall off and die, and they do die.

#43 Waddle

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 11:20 AM

Where it or don't, the nanny state really shouldn't get involved. If someone, at no risk to anyone but themselves doesn't want to wear a seatbelt let them crack on.



More work for us so go for it, it can only be a good thing! :huh: From a ticketing perspective I mean.

Edited by Waddle, 03 June 2011 - 11:20 AM.


#44 Rorschach

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 11:54 AM

Fair enough, WAID, though I respectfully disagree.
As has already been mentioned here; not wearing your seatbelt doesn't just put you at risk, it also puts other people at risk. Then there's the suffering and cost to other people in dealing with you after you crash without a seatbelt.
You're not going to kill other people by not wearing a helmet while mountain-biking. You can kill other people by not wearing a seatbelt and there's no benefit to not wearing a seatbelt outside legal exemptions. It's a clear example of the courts knowing better than someone who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt just because they don't fancy it.

Plus, the whole premise of law and policing is that the courts "know better than you". If having laws is evidence of a "nanny state", then so be it. I may not agree with every single law on a personal (if not professional) level, but "sticking my oar in" is my job. :huh:

#45 CmdKeen

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:03 PM

When mountain climbers start injuring themselves sufficiently frequently as to be a major burden on the emergency services - and enough of them stop wearing safety equipment - then perhaps the state would step in and legislate.

Some more reasons for mandatory seat belt wearing:

  • It doesn't matter how good a driver you are, or how safe your car is. Other people, and people in lorries, can drive into you.
  • People used to view a passenger belting up as an afront to their driving - people didn't want to be rude so didn't belt up - mandatory seatbelts remove that social stigma


#46 Paradox

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:16 PM

I have to say that "it's very uncomfortable" is one of the more ridiculous excuses I've heard for not wearing a seatbelt.

How can you read that comment back and not realise you sound like an idiot? :)

#47 GoneForgotten

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:25 PM

Fair enough, WAID, though I respectfully disagree.
As has already been mentioned here; not wearing your seatbelt doesn't just put you at risk, it also puts other people at risk. Then there's the suffering and cost to other people in dealing with you after you crash without a seatbelt.
You're not going to kill other people by not wearing a helmet while mountain-biking. You can kill other people by not wearing a seatbelt and there's no benefit to not wearing a seatbelt outside legal exemptions. It's a clear example of the courts knowing better than someone who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt just because they don't fancy it.

Plus, the whole premise of law and policing is that the courts "know better than you". If having laws is evidence of a "nanny state", then so be it. I may not agree with every single law on a personal (if not professional) level, but "sticking my oar in" is my job. :)


I'm being slightly polemic but not solely. I did also say, at no risk to anyone other than themselves which covers off the rear passenger point. I don't buy into the whole, it isn't very nice for those who have to come and clear up later, we did sign up for the role (or any emergency service) knowing that gruesome was in the job description.

The courts and the law can protect me from others but I question how much it should protect me from myself.

When mountain climbers start injuring themselves sufficiently frequently as to be a major burden on the emergency services - and enough of them stop wearing safety equipment - then perhaps the state would step in and legislate.


So it's only the burden in terms of cost that's the issue? I would say the state at that point shouldn't interfere, if they're just worried about saving money.

Some more reasons for mandatory seat belt wearing:

  • It doesn't matter how good a driver you are, or how safe your car is. Other people, and people in lorries, can drive into you.
  • People used to view a passenger belting up as an afront to their driving - people didn't want to be rude so didn't belt up - mandatory seatbelts remove that social stigma


Same applies for the first point, if you want to protect yourself then you can and with regards to the latter, Having asked some older people nearby nobody has heard of that as a notion. So perhaps that's just something where you're from?

#48 Enraged flea 1

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:32 PM

Fair enough, WAID, though I respectfully disagree.
As has already been mentioned here; not wearing your seatbelt doesn't just put you at risk, it also puts other people at risk. Then there's the suffering and cost to other people in dealing with you after you crash without a seatbelt.
You're not going to kill other people by not wearing a helmet while mountain-biking. You can kill other people by not wearing a seatbelt and there's no benefit to not wearing a seatbelt outside legal exemptions. It's a clear example of the courts knowing better than someone who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt just because they don't fancy it.

Plus, the whole premise of law and policing is that the courts "know better than you". If having laws is evidence of a "nanny state", then so be it. I may not agree with every single law on a personal (if not professional) level, but "sticking my oar in" is my job. :)


Just one thing the courts knowing better than us. After looking at what seems like endless stupid Punishments and buglers being let off to feed there cat. I beg to differ.

Edited by Enraged flea 1, 03 June 2011 - 12:32 PM.


#49 CmdKeen

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:43 PM

Burdens can be more than just cost. There is a finite amount of resources in terms of doctors, hospital beds, ambulances and police officers to deal with the outcomes of RTCs where no seatbelt has been worn. All of which are technically a function of monetary cost (but then so is everything if you reduce it to that level) - but not expressed because generally they are finite in supply.

You are causing harms to others by being more severely injured when not wearing a seatbelt, so it is a case of weighing up societies collective right to prompt and effective service from taxpayer funded emergency services - vs your right to not wear a seatbelt.

Even if you examine it purely on a monetary basis look at it this way. Public roads = taxpayer funded = society decides upon the requirements to use them. You need a licence to drive a car, the car needs to be roadworthy - you need to wear a seatbelt - all are products of the same thing. We all benefit from having competant drivers driving properly constructed vehicles on a well maintained road where if a collision occurs injury to every party is minimised.
If you want to drive on private land in an unsafe vehicle with no seatbelt then go for it - that is your mountain climbing. Sufficiently few people do injure themselves doing that the state doesn't intefere. However if it starts becoming such a noticeable burden on society then it will involve itself.

An individual's right to be a moron is secondary to that. We still treat them on the NHS when they injure themselves - so the important rights, like your right to life are preserved.

#50 TallGuy

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 02:57 PM

I have to say that "it's very uncomfortable" is one of the more ridiculous excuses I've heard for not wearing a seatbelt.


I think we beat that during the No Excuses campaign last year when a bronzed woman was stopped for not wearing a belt. She had just got a spray tan and didn't want to smudge it. Posted Image




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