160 replies to this topic

[SkinSte]

This was raised at th elast Senior Leaders meeting and supposed to be no OST refresher training at weekends any more.

The problem is that if this is not done at weekends, then there are alot of officers, who will have to take holidays or un-paid leave from their employment to accomodate this. I for one fall into this group and I am not happy loosing a days pay for supporting GMP. We give enough of our time up for FREE without having to pay for the privillage.

It appears that the trainers want overtime payments for providing the course on a weekend, but why don't they just simply re-rosta their rest days...... Or even better, why don't they just simply volunteer their time... ?

The Met recently did this, then realised it was a complete balls-up as almost all SCs couldn't attend a training session. The decision was then reversed when loads of people lapsed and divisions complained that all of a sudden they couldn't parade any Specials.

Regards,
Met Interloper.

PS my personal opinion, you can't ask Regs to work for free, it would be the thin end of the wedge and would never happen.

[SC_GMP_BDIV]

This was raised at th elast Senior Leaders meeting and supposed to be no OST refresher training at weekends any more.

The problem is that if this is not done at weekends, then there are alot of officers, who will have to take holidays or un-paid leave from their employment to accomodate this. I for one fall into this group and I am not happy loosing a days pay for supporting GMP. We give enough of our time up for FREE without having to pay for the privillage.

It appears that the trainers want overtime payments for providing the course on a weekend, but why don't they just simply re-rosta their rest days...... Or even better, why don't they just simply volunteer their time... ?

Why should a paid member of staff give up their time for free to train specials? Likewise they shouldnt have their rest days re-rostered to train specials. The OST trainers are mainly (if not all) civillian police staff and as such they have employment rights. If the force started messing them around chopping and changing rest days to suit then the trainers could get unions involved etc and potentially/ultimately they could strike. Different story for any PC trainers who don't have employment rights and if theyre told they are working at weekend they are working if they like it or not.

On the other hand no special should need to use annual leave or take unpaid leave from their jobs in order to train during the week for something which they give up their time for free to do.

The solution? Either the force needs to back track and pay the trainers the overtime to train specials at the weekend - unlikely in the current climate of trying to save £'s. The only other option I can see is that each special submits a claim for loss of earnings due to having to take time off.

Either that or everyone's authority to carry baton, cuffs, cs expires and noone can go operational.

This will be interesting.

[AndyM]

Has your force considered having Specials qualified to teach OST?

My force has done this and it certainly helps to take the load off our full-time colleagues.


Andy
D&C interloper

[SC_GMP_BDIV]

Has your force considered having Specials qualified to teach OST?

My force has done this and it certainly helps to take the load off our full-time colleagues.


Andy
D&C interloper

Now that is a very good suggestion, and one that has no doubt ever been considered.

[AndyM]

Now that is a very good suggestion, and one that has no doubt ever been considered.

It works quite well and the cost of the initial training plus annual requals, over the long term, is far less than paying overtime.

[benkov]

That's all well and good, but how would an SC feel if asked to give OST refreshers to regs?

[SC_GMP_BDIV]

That's all well and good, but how would an SC feel if asked to give OST refreshers to regs?

They wouldn't would they. The regular training staff work Monday to Friday so they would be available to train the regs and do their refreshers. A reg doesn't specifically 'need'a weekend course like a lot of the specials do. A special OST trainer could be utilised purely for doning the weekend training for specials only. As good an idea as it sounds I can't see it being done, I imagine certain qualifications/accreditations are required before someone is able to teach and authorise officers in the use of OST. I also imagine it wouldnt go down too well that training staff are paid x thousand pounds yet a special or a number of specials are expected to do the same job for free.

[AndyM]

They wouldn't would they. The regular training staff work Monday to Friday so they would be available to train the regs and do their refreshers. A reg doesn't specifically 'need'a weekend course like a lot of the specials do. A special OST trainer could be utilised purely for doning the weekend training for specials only. As good an idea as it sounds I can't see it being done, I imagine certain qualifications/accreditations are required before someone is able to teach and authorise officers in the use of OST. I also imagine it wouldnt go down too well that training staff are paid x thousand pounds yet a special or a number of specials are expected to do the same job for free.

Our SC OST trainers do the same course as their regular colleagues.

When it comes to the payment side you could apply that to all specials, as we all do a role for free that someone else gets paid alot of money for because we want to help out. In addition our SC OST trainers count any training they do as duty hours and can claim the appropriate expenses.

I have alot of respect of these guys, who give up even more of their free time than the rest of us, just to keep us fully trained.

[Alpha2]

If anyone is needing an OST course, I would advise that you book well, well in advance.
At least 4 weeks. HTH.

[Foxy]

Why should a paid member of staff give up their time for free to train specials? Likewise they shouldnt have their rest days re-rostered to train specials. The OST trainers are mainly (if not all) civillian police staff and as such they have employment rights. If the force started messing them around chopping and changing rest days to suit then the trainers could get unions involved etc and potentially/ultimately they could strike. Different story for any PC trainers who don't have employment rights and if theyre told they are working at weekend they are working if they like it or not.

On the other hand no special should need to use annual leave or take unpaid leave from their jobs in order to train during the week for something which they give up their time for free to do.

The solution? Either the force needs to back track and pay the trainers the overtime to train specials at the weekend - unlikely in the current climate of trying to save £'s. The only other option I can see is that each special submits a claim for loss of earnings due to having to take time off.

Either that or everyone's authority to carry baton, cuffs, cs expires and noone can go operational.

This will be interesting.

During my 10 years of service in GMP I have never had a civilian trainer for OST (I am not saying GMP don't have civilian trainers - just its always been done by Regs). All my OST has been at weekends.

Police officer trainers are still police officers and paid the same as their colleague who work a 7 day shift rota, so why can't they have their shifts/rest day adjusted, just like their fellow officers.....?

Specials devote a lot of time to GMP to support their Regular colleagues. This is time that is volunteered for FREE to assist the Regulars, Specials are being relied on even more in the current financial climate. It is a shame that some of these Regulars take the view, that they won't devote a small amount of their time to the Specials who support them so much.

I agree that no Special should loose money to attend training to allow them to undertake the role of a Special.

They wouldn't would they. The regular training staff work Monday to Friday so they would be available to train the regs and do their refreshers. A reg doesn't specifically 'need'a weekend course like a lot of the specials do. A special OST trainer could be utilised purely for doning the weekend training for specials only. As good an idea as it sounds I can't see it being done, I imagine certain qualifications/accreditations are required before someone is able to teach and authorise officers in the use of OST. I also imagine it wouldnt go down too well that training staff are paid x thousand pounds yet a special or a number of specials are expected to do the same job for free.

My last OST was at a weekend at Hough End, and we were out numbered by Regulars on it.......has been

In the past it was 2 trainers who started the course, but by the afternoon one of them has often slopped off, bet they still claimed the full duties O/T....

[24880208]

I too have experienced regulars attending weekeknd OST courses and only come accross regular police officer OST trainers for my OST training

[SC_GMP_BDIV]

During my 10 years of service in GMP I have never had a civilian trainer for OST (I am not saying GMP don't have civilian trainers - just its always been done by Regs). All my OST has been at weekends.

Police officer trainers are still police officers and paid the same as their colleague who work a 7 day shift rota, so why can't they have their shifts/rest day adjusted, just like their fellow officers.....?

Specials devote a lot of time to GMP to support their Regular colleagues. This is time that is volunteered for FREE to assist the Regulars, Specials are being relied on even more in the current financial climate. It is a shame that some of these Regulars take the view, that they won't devote a small amount of their time to the Specials who support them so much.

I agree that no Special should loose money to attend training to allow them to undertake the role of a Special.



My last OST was at a weekend at Hough End, and we were out numbered by Regulars on it.......has been

In the past it was 2 trainers who started the course, but by the afternoon one of them has often slopped off, bet they still claimed the full duties O/T....

During my 9 years service as a special and 5 years service as a reg I have seen both civillian and police officer trainers, however as a special all my ost refreshers were carried out at weekends and always by police officers. When I joined the regs my 2 week OST course was run by civillians as was all the refreshers I have done since.

I know specials devote a lot of time for FREE, I used to devote many hours for FREE myself.

Police officer trainers can have their rest days re rostered the same as any other police officer can, i wasnt suggesting otherwise. What i did say was why should they? The force has made the decision to stop paying the overtime, in that case in my opinion they need to change the rotas to have 7 day cover in the training dept. they havent thought ahead and thought about what problems it is going to cause. officers rest days should not be re rostered to make a flawed system work. it happens far too often and officers keep the wobbly wheel on and make it work. The wheel is kept on by the good will and dedication of police officers, while we keep making it work nothing will change for the better.

regs will attend weekend ost courses if trainers are available whats the problem with that?

I too have experienced regulars attending weekeknd OST courses and only come accross regular police officer OST trainers for my OST training

see above

[24880208]

During my 9 years service as a special and 5 years service as a reg I have seen both civillian and police officer trainers, however as a special all my ost refreshers were carried out at weekends and always by police officers. When I joined the regs my 2 week OST course was run by civillians as was all the refreshers I have done since.

I know specials devote a lot of time for FREE, I used to devote many hours for FREE myself.

Police officer trainers can have their rest days re rostered the same as any other police officer can, i wasnt suggesting otherwise. What i did say was why should they? The force has made the decision to stop paying the overtime, in that case in my opinion they need to change the rotas to have 7 day cover in the training dept. they havent thought ahead and thought about what problems it is going to cause. officers rest days should not be re rostered to make a flawed system work. it happens far too often and officers keep the wobbly wheel on and make it work. The wheel is kept on by the good will and dedication of police officers, while we keep making it work nothing will change for the better.

regs will attend weekend ost courses if trainers are available whats the problem with that?



see above

I guess there are some questions that should be asked:

- Since the cutbacks, are the trainers civilians or police officers ?

- If police officers, then should their working pattern reflect the needs of the departments, ie to provide some training cover for weekend working?

Any good system should allow for cover and it is a poor system that relies on overtime to make the system work, when there should be foresight and planning in place.

I am not for one minute saying the job (police) can be done without overtime, far from it. I know of many occasion when overtime has been required and should be catered for. But planned traing courses is certainly not a valid justification for this.

[cvp]

Got a lovely call from recruitment today, saying congratulations, and my uniform fitting is on monday with inducation on the saturday. Thank You to everyone for their advise during the recruitment process. It was much appreciated.

[Melissajane83]

Got a lovely call from recruitment today, saying congratulations, and my uniform fitting is on monday with inducation on the saturday. Thank You to everyone for their advise during the recruitment process. It was much appreciated.

Well done and congratulations....

[GD1]

Me to, uniform fitting on Weds, induction on Sat!!!!!!!!!!

What division you going on?

[BOZZO2010]

whats your training programme like? Is your indusction Sat/sun?
I have my assessment on Saturday, any advice???
Whci division are you going on?

Good news that you have completed everything. Well done

Me to, uniform fitting on Weds, induction on Sat!!!!!!!!!!

What division you going on?

[GD1]

Yeah, induction Sat and Sun, not got training details through as yet, hopefully in the post.

Joining P division - Rochdale

Time will fly by durring the assessment, just try and plan your time when on the report writing section goes so quickly . Be calm in the interview stage and try and give clear answers covering all the core values. Good luck and let me know how you get on, hopefully if you pass you will get your fitness test pretty quick. The whole process seems to take forever.

Edited by GD1, 12 July 2011 - 03:08 PM.

[BOZZO2010]

It feels like a lifetime and I am only at the assessment centre stage...
If I pass my fitness is on the week starting 15/8..

Thought you would have all your dates by now..
The training is for about 3 months... I think you do majority Saturday's and week night
hope that hasn't changed
Phil

Yeah, induction Sat and Sun, not got training details through as yet, hopefully in the post.

Joining P division - Rochdale

Time will fly by durring the assessment, just try and plan your time when on the report writing section goes so quickly . Be calm in the interview stage and try and give clear answers covering all the core values. Good luck and let me know how you get on, hopefully if you pass you will get your fitness test pretty quick. The whole process seems to take forever.

[GD1]

its changed on the last few intakes, you now have to complete your induction on a weekend but have to do a full 7 days (monday - Friday and monday - Tue) which you will need to book off work. the rest of the training on on evenings and weekends. This may change for your intake.

You get all your training dates on the induction and on the OST week.

What division have you put down for?

[BOZZO2010]

i have put down for N Bury division but I am looking to change it as soon as I can and you?
The 7 days is OST and I hope I can still do majority Saturdays
they said at the open evening that I could..
Lets get throug the assessment first befoe anything else

its changed on the last few intakes, you now have to complete your induction on a weekend but have to do a full 7 days (monday - Friday and monday - Tue) which you will need to book off work. the rest of the training on on evenings and weekends. This may change for your intake.

You get all your training dates on the induction and on the OST week.

What division have you put down for?

[GD1]

I did put down Salford, but as I have moved out of Manchester, soI had to have my nearest divison which is Rochdale, just glad to be in !!!!!!!!

[The right to remain silent]

Congratulations CVP.

I think I'm on the intake after you. Was your induction date always planned for this weekend? Mine are the 23rd and 24th providing the vetting is all OK, just wondering if you was on my intake but got bumped forward?

[cvp]

Congratulations CVP.

I think I'm on the intake after you. Was your induction date always planned for this weekend? Mine are the 23rd and 24th providing the vetting is all OK, just wondering if you was on my intake but got bumped forward?

cheers pal

My induction weekend is the 23rd and 24th. I had an email with these dates a while back, saying I will on it, if I passed vetting.

Edited by cvp, 12 July 2011 - 04:56 PM.

[woo1980]

Congrats to all who have just got on the intake. I too have recived the call today so shall see you all on the 23rd July.

Uniform fitting next Tuesday!!

Anyone got a list of all the training dates they could forward to me? I believe an email was previously sent with all of these on; however I unfortunately did not receive this.